# Website Outerplaces.com: Physicists Claim that Consciousness Lives in Quantum State After Death **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991 "2015-11-08T04:08:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/1 "2015-11-08T04:08:09Z")
The thread title taken from this article: [http://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/4518-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death](http://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/4518-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death) Some claims from the article: > [@](#): > > Dr. Hans-Peter Dürr, former head of the Max Planck Institute for Physics in Munich, posits that, just as a particle “writes” all of its information on its wave function, the brain is the tangible “floppy disk” on which we save our data, and this data is then “uploaded” into the spiritual quantum field. > [@](#): > > Dr. Christian Hellwig of the Max Planck Institute for Biophysical Chemistry in Göttingen, found evidence that information in our central nervous system is phase encoded, a type of coding that allows multiple pieces of data to occupy the same time… On the other hand, however, these spiritual properties correspond exactly to the characteristics that distinguish the extremely puzzling and wondrous phenomena in the quantum world." > [@](#): > > Physicist Professor Robert Jahn of Princeton University concluded that if consciousness can exchange information in both directions with the physical environment, then it can be attributed with the same “molecular binding potential” as physical objects, meaning that it must also follow the tenets of quantum mechanics. Im not nearly knowledgeable in physics to posit an argument myself but I know some of you are. And others will have strong feelings on this subject. So, please, are the scientists above right or is this simply woo? Do we really know enough about the natural world to discount the possibility of an external conscienceness? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/2 "2015-11-08T05:11:37Z")
It’s a SciFi rag with no link to the original material. Reminds me of the nonsense I used to read in the drugstore when I was 13. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/3 "2015-11-08T05:34:13Z")
Mostly woo so far for what a cursory search showed me. I have seen many times that articles in this matter do over reach about what the scientists are telling, what we have so far here are just opinions, not published science. In the case of Dr. Christian Hellwig I really have to be weary when “…” appear. When there is no link to a research or article that is a red flag that someone is cutting very important context. Following related searches I noted that the examples of scientists pushing opinions like that just had encounters with seemingly spiritual phenomena (ghosts) that would not impress any skeptic and here one has to note that James Randi already showed us many examples of how just being a scientist is no warranty that one could not fall for woo. Indeed, most of the names mentioned in the article from the OP were just talking about their opinion, not their research. > **[Scientists Find Hints for the Immortality of the Soul](https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/rolf-froboese/scientists-find-hints-for-the-immortality-of-the-soul_b_5499969.html)** > > Some international physicists are convinced, that our spirit has a quantum state and that the dualism between the body and the soul is just as real to as the "wave-particle dualism" of the smallest particles. If this was indeed as important as they are reporting I would expect them to stop what they are doing and work in a field that would find evidence for this, but I found for example that Dr. Christian Hellwig research is with Tinnitus, a very important one IMO to figure out how to cure it, but I have seen that woo woo articles point to that as being a “phantom perception” and therefore related to spiritual researh. Somehow I do not think that is what he is involved with. The treatment he gives to patients is based on Tinnitus retraining therapy, it has problems as like with other medical solutions is not generally effective; but research has showed that it is not an spiritual method as it involves the retraining of one’s hearing by applying sound enrichment, it includes the use of real hearing aids that can end a negative reaction to the tinnitus sound. So what I can say so far that the ones that are making the article are just grabbing some opinions and even overreaching when trying to put the research of some of those scientists into the woo woo territory, not very convincing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/4 "2015-11-08T08:21:42Z")
So, does this explain who feeds Schrodinger’s cat? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/5 "2015-11-08T08:47:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, does this explain who feeds Schrodinger’s cat? Perhaps its a hint how Instinct might be passed in the animal kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/6 "2015-11-08T08:54:24Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Perhaps its a hint how Instinct might be passed in the animal kingdom. Morphic resonance all over again? (It’s an interesting idea, but only supported by striking, yet anecdotal evidende) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/7 "2015-11-08T17:18:52Z")
Note that it’s Christian Hellweg, not Christian Hellwig. The misspelling lead me on some fruitless searches. I couldn’t figure out what an economist was doing at the Institute for Biophysical Chemistry. Hellweg isn’t exactly a “biophysical chemist” either. He’s a doctor specializing in tinnitus. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/8 "2015-11-08T17:25:02Z")
Also, the title of this thread is misleading. It makes it sound like this was about physicists who study comets or physicists who work at some institute whose abbreviation is COMET. COMET is just the name of a website which apparently has news about science fiction and occasionally science. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/9 "2015-11-08T17:28:18Z")
And note that Dürr retired in 1997 and died last year. ---
**Author:** ![IDtenT\_Error](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@IDtenT\_Error](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IDtenT_Error)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/10 "2015-11-08T17:31:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, does this explain who feeds Schrodinger’s cat? Doesn’t matter who you give the job to, half the time they forget. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/11 "2015-11-08T18:44:37Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > So, please, are the scientists above right or is this simply woo? It’s woo, specifically the kind called [non-materialist neuroscience](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Non-materialist_neuroscience). See also [dualism](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dualism) and [vitalism](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Vitalism). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/12 "2015-11-08T19:08:22Z")
I actually did noticed all that **Wendell Wagner** and I noted the Tinnitus expertness of one of the scientists already, but I did not want to make it a larger wall of text. Also **John Mace** did nail it in one. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/13 "2015-11-08T19:41:36Z")
Human consciousness as a “quantum standing wave” that persists after death is also a recurring theme in the writings of science fiction author Dan Simmons. He doesn’t claim any real-world scientific basis for it, of course, but it’s still a good read. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/14 "2015-11-08T21:50:54Z")
I don’t know about the rest but I do know about Jahn, who I saw talk about 25 years ago. He had a psychic research institute near Princeton, and was deep into it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he thought the mind went into the quantum field, but he sure had no evidence of this or anything else out of the ordinary. I think he was doing remote viewing at the time. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/15 "2015-11-08T22:15:41Z")
Actually, COMET is just a TV network that was advertising at the top of the page. I have modified the title of the thread to indicate the source of the story. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/16 "2015-11-08T22:26:53Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Hellweg isn’t exactly a “biophysical chemist” either. He’s a doctor specializing in tinnitus. So what he’s saying is that not even death will free me from this constant ringing? ☹ Does anybody else raise their BS shields whenever they see “quantum?” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/17 "2015-11-08T23:24:27Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Does anybody else raise their BS shields whenever they see “quantum?” :dubious: Any article or blurb referring to a “spiritual quantum field” can be happily ignored. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/18 "2015-11-08T23:58:22Z")
> [@Itself](#): > > Any article or blurb referring to a “spiritual quantum field” can be happily ignored. Not really. Going back through the decades the experts would have said the same thing about things that have been proven to be today. Our knowledge of how the universe actually works is likely to be very little. Now Im not saying that there is any validity to the linked article; but there could be. Its important to keep an open mind until all the evidence comes in. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/19 "2015-11-09T00:01:12Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > . Its important to keep an open mind until all the evidence comes in. I keep telling people that about Leprechauns. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991/20 "2015-11-09T00:03:39Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Not really. Going back through the decades the experts would have said the same thing about things that have been proven to be today. Our knowledge of how the universe actually works is likely to be very little. Now Im not saying that there is any validity to the linked article; but there could be. Its important to keep an open mind until all the evidence comes in. Uh, you need better evidence then, as mentioned the linked article has none, just opinions and even misrepresentations about the work that the scientists quoted are doing. As for experts knowing very little now and that we always will know better in the future, allow me to introduce you to the concept of the relativity of wrong: [http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm](http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm) > [@](#): > > The Relativity of Wrong > By Isaac Asimov > > I RECEIVED a letter the other day. It was handwritten in crabbed penmanship so that it was very difficult to read. Nevertheless, I tried to make it out just in case it might prove to be important. In the first sentence, the writer told me he was majoring in English literature, but felt he needed to teach me science. (I sighed a bit, for I knew very few English Lit majors who are equipped to teach me science, but I am very aware of the vast state of my ignorance and I am prepared to learn as much as I can from anyone, so I read on.) > > It seemed that in one of my innumerable essays, I had expressed a certain gladness at living in a century in which we finally got the basis of the universe straight. > > I didn’t go into detail in the matter, but what I meant was that we now know the basic rules governing the universe, together with the gravitational interrelationships of its gross components, as shown in the theory of relativity worked out between 1905 and 1916. We also know the basic rules governing the subatomic particles and their interrelationships, since these are very neatly described by the quantum theory worked out between 1900 and 1930. What’s more, we have found that the galaxies and clusters of galaxies are the basic units of the physical universe, as discovered between 1920 and 1930. > > These are all twentieth-century discoveries, you see. > > The young specialist in English Lit, having quoted me, went on to lecture me severely on the fact that in every century people have thought they understood the universe at last, and in every century they were proved to be wrong. It follows that the one thing we can say about our modern “knowledge” is that it is wrong. The young man then quoted with approval what Socrates had said on learning that the Delphic oracle had proclaimed him the wisest man in Greece. “If I am the wisest man,” said Socrates, “it is because I alone know that I know nothing.” the implication was that I was very foolish because I was under the impression I knew a great deal. > > My answer to him was, “John, when people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together.” > > The basic trouble, you see, is that people think that “right” and “wrong” are absolute; that everything that isn’t perfectly and completely right is totally and equally wrong. > > However, I don’t think that’s so. It seems to me that right and wrong are fuzzy concepts, and I will devote this essay to an explanation of why I think so. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/website-outerplaces-com-physicists-claim-that-consciousness-lives-in-quantum-state-after-death/736991.md?page=2)