# Week 5 NFL Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 5, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106 "2010-10-05T10:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/121 "2010-10-11T12:46:55Z")
So do I dare hope the \*\*Giants \*\*D is really this good? They convincingly squashed the Bears Offense and went on to stop the Texans and their #1 Rushing Offense now. It really looks like last years Defensive Coordinator, Bill Sheridan was the problem. Perry Fewell seems to be doing a far better job attacking the QB and the ball. Sheridan had one of our best not even starting in Osi. I never thought the \*\*Giants \*\*[COLOR=Black]were as bad as they looked last year but it is hard to believe they are this good. This looks like their Superbowl Defense. [/COLOR] ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/122 "2010-10-11T13:43:29Z")
So, who’s the best team in the NFC right now? Atlanta? Maybe Minnesota (yet to be determined…)? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/123 "2010-10-11T13:53:39Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > So do I dare hope the \*\*Giants \*\*D is really this good? > > They convincingly squashed the Bears Offense and went on to stop the Texans and their #1 Rushing Offense now. It really looks like last years Defensive Coordinator, Bill Sheridan was the problem. Perry Fewell seems to be doing a far better job attacking the QB and the ball. Sheridan had one of our best not even starting in Osi. I never thought the \*\*Giants \*\*[COLOR=Black]were as bad as they looked last year but it is hard to believe they are this good. This looks like their Superbowl Defense. > [/COLOR] If Peyton hadn’t smoked them, albeit at home, I might agree with you. Then again, he’s done that to a lot of teams. FWIW, [Footballoutsiders](http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef) agrees with you that they’re the best D in the NFC. Though I’m loathe to give **Airman Doors** any more fuel, I’ve gotta’ say that I don’t see many teams matching up with Pittsburgh if shithead comes back without much rust. They would have beat the Ravens handily if #7 was playing at his usual level, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/124 "2010-10-11T14:00:46Z")
So nobody got to 4-0. Am I right in thinking that’s pretty unusual? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/125 "2010-10-11T14:03:10Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > > [@What\_Exit](#): > > > > So do I dare hope the \*\*Giants \*\*D is really this good? > > > > They convincingly squashed the Bears Offense and went on to stop the Texans and their #1 Rushing Offense now. It really looks like last years Defensive Coordinator, Bill Sheridan was the problem. Perry Fewell seems to be doing a far better job attacking the QB and the ball. Sheridan had one of our best not even starting in Osi. I never thought the \*\*Giants \*\*[COLOR=Black]were as bad as they looked last year but it is hard to believe they are this good. This looks like their Superbowl Defense. > > [/COLOR] > > If Peyton hadn’t smoked them, albeit at home, I might agree with you. Then again, he’s done that to a lot of teams. FWIW, [Footballoutsiders](http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef) agrees with you that they’re the best D in the NFC. I was chalking the first 2 weeks up to getting the new system working. They seem to go through that with every new Def. Coordinator. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/126 "2010-10-11T14:24:44Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > So nobody got to 4-0. Am I right in thinking that’s pretty unusual? Hasn’t happened since 1970, according to one commentator this morning. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/127 "2010-10-11T14:52:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Can someone who watched the Giants game tell me how that one Hakeem Nicks catch wasn’t a TD? I know he scored two, but there was one that was called down at the half yard line where he clearly crossed inside the pylon. On replay it seemed (from a back-of-the-end-zone angle) that the ball in his right arm may have happened to cross the plane in bounds, but he (bizarrely) didn’t make any special effort to extend it over the end zone, and in real time it definitely appeared as if he simply ran out at the 2-foot line. Probably the Giants didn’t notice (as it looked kosher at first glance) and/or decided not to risk the challenge since they were inside the 1 with a 1st down. An unexpected result to me. It was only a 3 point line, on the road, which was one of those lines that seemed so inexplicable to me (they really think we’re as good as Houston?) that I should invoked my “they know something I don’t” theory and picked the Giants. Apparently the secondary isn’t quite as shaky as I’d feared (or the pass rush is just that effective). ---
**Author:** ![Roulette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Roulette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roulette)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/128 "2010-10-11T14:54:39Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > That was a good game in Washington. > > Yeah that was a great game. Packers should have been up by a lot more going into the half but the Skins D showed some life and the O made just enough plays to pull out the win (with a little help from the refs). Green Bay has a good team and frankly had Matthews stayed in the game no way Washington is able to make a comeback. I actually thought it was a terrible game. I was glad the skins won, but neither side played a good game IMO. And the refs were horrible more or less across the board. The entire group needs to be taken aside to have an in depth review of ‘holding’ and ‘pass interference’ because they missed tons of blatant fouls then called ones that were iffy. I’ll take the win, but I don’t think I can call it a great game ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/129 "2010-10-11T15:20:51Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Second, the issue i’m dealing with here is not who was the better team for the rest of the match. The comment about getting hosed referred specifically to that one play, which happened while the Chargers were trying to work their way into position for what would have been a game-winning field goal. The fumble decision took that chance away, and gave the Raiders a TD and a virtually unassailable lead with under a minute to go. Who was the best team over the rest of the game is irrelevant to the quality and the impact of that call. Sure, but you don’t think there were plays that probably should have gone the Raiders’ way and weren’t called in the game? Them’s the breaks. The fact that this call happened to be during the final drive of the game only appears to make it more important. In actual fact, a fumble in the middle of the first quarter is just as big a deal as one at the end of the fourth. For some reason, I read your post as “my Chargers got hosed” instead of “the Chargers got hosed”. Didn’t even notice your location. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/130 "2010-10-11T15:36:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but the Moss to the Vikings trade just smells like a desperation move to me. Seems like they feel like they have to win now…this year…while Favre is still somewhat functional… I agree, **Oak** and I think we will find out tonight just how well this little experiment is going to work. My prediction: Jets 34, Vikings 20 ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/131 "2010-10-11T15:43:57Z")
My beloved Falcons played a solid game against a clearly improved Cleveland team. I am finding it harder and harder to be cautiously optimistic about my team and if we win against the Eagles this Sunday I will be willing to consider them the best team in the NFC. If we win against the Saints later this season, I believe we will win the NFC South outright and get a bye in the first week postseason. Of course, the wheels _could_ come off and then we would be thrashing about trying to eek out a wild-card placement. But somehow, I think we may actually do it this year. Comments? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/132 "2010-10-11T16:00:15Z")
> [@Roulette](#): > > > [@DCnDC](#): > > > > Yeah that was a great game. Packers should have been up by a lot more going into the half but the Skins D showed some life and the O made just enough plays to pull out the win (with a little help from the refs). Green Bay has a good team and frankly had Matthews stayed in the game no way Washington is able to make a comeback. > > I actually thought it was a terrible game. I was glad the skins won, but neither side played a good game IMO. And the refs were horrible more or less across the board. The entire group needs to be taken aside to have an in depth review of ‘holding’ and ‘pass interference’ because they missed tons of blatant fouls then called ones that were iffy. > > I’ll take the win, but I don’t think I can call it a great game I am a Packer fan and I agree about the officiating. There were definitely a couple of calls I thought the Pack got away with a few things and I actually thhought the Rodgers INT at the end might have had a Roughing the passer blow to the head, but still, the Packers really looked poor after losing some players. The offense had 200+ yards in the first quarter, but clearly the loss of Finley hurt. And then as soon as Matthews was out the Defense started to lose it. Still, one upright away from pulling out a win. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/133 "2010-10-11T16:14:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure, but you don’t think there were plays that probably should have gone the Raiders’ way and weren’t called in the game? Them’s the breaks. The fact that this call happened to be during the final drive of the game only appears to make it more important. In actual fact, a fumble in the middle of the first quarter is just as big a deal as one at the end of the fourth. I don’t know how you can say that the only thing that makes this call more important was the time left in the game. First, offhand i can’t think of any other really bad calls in the game at all, in either direction. It was, until this particular incident, a pretty controversy-free game. Also, some bad calls have far smaller consequences than others. For example, in the Redskins/Packers game yesterday, LaRon Landry picked off Aaron Rodgers and returned the ball 23 yards. On replay, they brought it back to the point of the interception because he was down by contact. Now, if they get that down-by-contact ruling wrong, it makes a difference of 23 yards one way or the other, which is not insignificant, but it’s also not the end of the world, because it doesn’t change who has possession. Similarly, if the officials fuck up a 13-yard completion/incompletion call on 2nd and 7, it does make a difference, because the difference in possible result is either 1st/10 or 3rd/7. But it doesn’t turn the ball over, and the shafted team still has a chance to fight to nullify the error during the drive. But if an officiating error causes the ball the be transferred from the offensive team to the defensive team (one of the most significant events in a football game), and also allows the defensive team to score a touchdown on that very play, it’s hard to argue that there’s any more significant way to make an officiating error. And i’m not just talking about this particular incident. An officiating error on a play where the D runs a fumble or interception in for a TD is, pretty much by definition, the most significant error the zebras can make. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/134 "2010-10-11T16:20:13Z")
Should [utl=“[NFL Football Highlights, Clips & Analysis | NFL.com](http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b3cdeb/GameDay-Packers-vs-Redskins-highlights?module=HP_video)”]this (3:30 mark)) have been a penalty? It was an extrememly crucial play in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/135 "2010-10-11T16:24:08Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > … > > An unexpected result to me. It was only a 3 point line, on the road, which was one of those lines that seemed so inexplicable to me (they really think we’re as good as Houston?) that I should invoked my “they know something I don’t” theory and picked the Giants. Apparently the secondary isn’t quite as shaky as I’d feared (or the pass rush is just that effective). Thought the same as you, until I heard that Mario Williams was questionable with a groin pull, and they were debating not playing Andre Johnson with his high ankle sprain. No Mario pretty much equals no pass rush, and the Texans’ secondary is just not very good. No Andre and no Jacoby Jones, meant potential big issues with the offense. So I switched my picks to the Giants. It shouldn’t have been as crippling as it seemed to be, though, and I’m wondering if their phenomenal performance in week 1 was just due to an auspicious match-up with the Colts front 7? I’m not thrilled about the upcoming K.C. game at all, though K.C. with their run-heavy offense appears to be a good match up for the Texans. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/136 "2010-10-11T16:30:19Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Should [utl=“[NFL Football Highlights, Clips & Analysis | NFL.com](http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b3cdeb/GameDay-Packers-vs-Redskins-highlights?module=HP_video)”]this (3:30 mark)) have been a penalty? > > It was an extrememly crucial play in the game. Fixed Link. [this (3:30 mark))](http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b3cdeb/GameDay-Packers-vs-Redskins-highlights?module=HP_video) ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/137 "2010-10-11T16:43:04Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > Maybe it’s just me, but the Moss to the Vikings trade just smells like a desperation move to me. Seems like they feel like they have to win now…this year…while Favre is still somewhat functional… > > I agree, **Oak** and I think we will find out tonight just how well this little experiment is going to work. > My prediction: Jets 34, Vikings 20 Agree with both of you that the Moss trade is not likely to improve matters. Favre is just plain missing people. When you can’t even throw the ball to a receiver like Camarillo, who was averaging something crazy like a 80% catch rate the past few years, I think the problem may be with the QB. Hasn’t one of the problems been that Favre’s been mis-communicating with his receivers? I don’t see how Moss will help with communication and an overall lack of crispness in Favre’s timing, other than that Moss doesn’t require a perfectly placed ball in order to make good things happen. Is Favre even going to play what with the fallout from the Sterger pictures thing? I thought Goodell was mulling a 4-game suspension for Favre? (Heard this in the car, **after** I already benched Gradkowski for Favre…whatever I do or advocate this FF season, just do the opposite, O.K?) Looks like there might be rain tonight, without much wind. If it does get breezy, I don’t see this being a shootout, but rather an ugly defensive game. The Vikes’ D are no slouches, and everybody already knows about the Jets. Call it Jets 16, Vikes 13. Of course, if Favre gets frustrated and starts winging it around, this could get very ugly, very quickly. (No, I’m not bitter this year…) The O/U’s 38.5-39.5, and I’d be very surprised if it went over that, absent Favre heroics leading to pick sixes. Line’s up to 4.5 from 4 earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/138 "2010-10-11T16:51:03Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > The ball could have gone forward because of his arm and still been a live fumble, though. The question isn’t whether his arm propelled the ball forward; it’s whether he lost possession of the ball before doing so. Maybe the ref thought he got stripped of the ball and then pushed his own fumble forward with an empty palm. > > **I don’t know. I’ve always struggled to understand why all these plays aren’t incomplete passes. They sure look like it to me.** (Emphasis added.) I completely agree with your quote, and especially the part of it I bolded. I was watching the game in a loud bar—so didn’t hear the explanation—and still have no idea why that wasn’t an incomplete pass. I’ve watched that sort of play be called an incomplete pass pretty much the entire 25 years I’ve watched the NFL. Then again, I have no idea what incidental contact vs pass interference is anymore, or what constitutes roughing the passer. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/139 "2010-10-11T16:55:27Z")
Favre plays at his best when he has off the field distractions, and his problems earlier in the season has been his lack of a stretch receiver. I think he’ll try to go deep to Moss early, and even if they don’t connect, it will force the defense to roll coverage that way and away from All Day. It also opens up Harvin and Shiancoe in the middle. People are kidding themselves if they think Moss is not going to dramatically help this offense. It’s not like they had a lot of missing pieces, they were just missing their deep guy and now they’ve got one again. They’ve also still got one of the best defenses in the League and the Jets aren’t going to run up any scores on them. It’s not like the Vikings have been dominated in any of their games this year. They led the Saints at halftime and they came up short on a 4th and goal against the Dolphins. Don’t bet against them putting it together tonight, even if Randy is used mostly as a decoy. Even as a decoy, Moss still creates space for other playmakers like AP and Harvin. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106/140 "2010-10-11T17:07:30Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > > [@Gagundathar](#): > > > > I agree, **Oak** and I think we will find out tonight just how well this little experiment is going to work. > > My prediction: Jets 34, Vikings 20 > > Agree with both of you that the Moss trade is not likely to improve matters. Favre is just plain missing people. When you can’t even throw the ball to a receiver like Camarillo, who was averaging something crazy like a 80% catch rate the past few years, I think the problem may be with the QB. Hasn’t one of the problems been that Favre’s been mis-communicating with his receivers? I don’t see how Moss will help with communication and an overall lack of crispness in Favre’s timing, other than that Moss doesn’t require a perfectly placed ball in order to make good things happen. > > Is Favre even going to play what with the fallout from the Sterger pictures thing? I thought Goodell was mulling a 4-game suspension for Favre? (Heard this in the car, **after** I already benched Gradkowski for Favre…whatever I do or advocate this FF season, just do the opposite, O.K?) > > Looks like there might be rain tonight, without much wind. If it does get breezy, I don’t see this being a shootout, but rather an ugly defensive game. The Vikes’ D are no slouches, and everybody already knows about the Jets. Call it Jets 16, Vikes 13. Of course, if Favre gets frustrated and starts winging it around, this could get very ugly, very quickly. (No, I’m not bitter this year…) The O/U’s 38.5-39.5, and I’d be very surprised if it went over that, absent Favre heroics leading to pick sixes. Line’s up to 4.5 from 4 earlier. I hate to say it, but Favre is starting to remind me of Ali. Hanging on too long, becoming really hard to watch. Sugar Ray Leonard did the same thing. In his last fight I was screaming at the TV for them to stop the fight–thought Sugar Ray was gonna get killed in the ring–and I’m not generally a fan of stopping fights. Favre appears to have lost his edge, and I don’t see Randy Moss as the answer. Gonna be really interesting to see what comes out of the texting/picture thing. If it turns out to be legit, with the precedent for suspensions that’s been established, I think Goodell has very little choice. He’ll have to impose some sort of suspension. Funny thing about it, though…the victim is not the one that complained. I’m very curious about who the unnamed source Deadspin paid for the pictures might be… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/week-5-nfl-discussion/556106.md?page=8)