# Weekly Comic Book Discussion 6/23/2005 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458 "2005-06-22T23:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/21 "2005-06-23T22:27:03Z")
Oh, crap…sorry for messing up Cliffy’s spoiler. \>\_\< ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/22 "2005-06-23T22:27:41Z")
Oh, as to the specific question of the numbe of volumes – Crisis is all in the one volume. That’s the whole series. Although there were lots of Crisis-tie-ins in other books at the time, I never read Crisis until a few years ago, and I think the story works fine just from what’s in that book. The JLA/JSA team-up stories are reprinted in 3 volumes of “Crisis on Multiple Earths” so far, which goes up the 1974. There’s material for another three or four volumes of the series if they want to keep going with it, but no further volumes have been announced as far as I know. (Although I think vol. 3 didn’t come out very long ago, so there may well be more coming down the pipe.) As for the forthcoming I-Cri, I’m sure it’s to be traded in several volumes at some point in the future. There’s already a trade for “Prelude to infinite Crisis,” which reprints stories from various DC comics over the last year which are now revealed to be lead-ins to I-Cri, although they weren’t necessarily billed as such when they came out. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/23 "2005-06-23T22:32:31Z")
**Tengu** , I recently read that Kid Eternity had been retconned in the '70’s to be Freddy Freeman’s long lost brother. It makes a certain amount of sense that the Kid would mave a connection to the Marvel family – magic word leads to lightning bolt and suddenly some new person is standing there. Their powers are obviously not exactly the same, but in practice they’re similar. So that’s why Kid E was on Earth-S. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/24 "2005-06-23T22:41:31Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > I recently read that Kid Eternity had been retconned in the '70’s to be Freddy Freeman’s long lost brother. It makes a certain amount of sense that the Kid would mave a connection to the Marvel family – magic word leads to lightning bolt and suddenly some new person is standing there. Their powers are obviously not exactly the same, but in practice they’re similar. So that’s why Kid E was on Earth-S. Oh, yes, I know that part. What’s inexplicable to me is that they’d retcon a Quality character into the Marvel Family in the first place, when they had a world full of Quality characters. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/25 "2005-06-23T23:06:19Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > There are separately several volumes of “Crisis on **Multiple** Earths.” Crappy-ass name, but these reprint the various JLA/JSA team-up stories that started the whole she-bang back in 1963. The early team-ups are all the JLA and JSA, but later volumes will include those appearances of characters originally published by other companies. So this is why I can’t ever find the JSA vs. JLA issues that I remembered as a kid, they are part of the Crisis on Multiple Earths series. Okay, I’ll pick up the other 2 volumes of that and in the mean time I’ll read Crisis on Infinite Earths. One last question… is Crisis on Infinite Earths the thing where Hal Jordan goes off the deep end, or is that something else? And, thanks **Cliffy** that was the kind of answer I was hoping for. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/26 "2005-06-23T23:09:01Z")
Aw, now you’ve gone and made me feel bad. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/27 "2005-06-23T23:16:15Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > One last question… is Crisis on Infinite Earths the thing where Hal Jordan goes off the deep end, or is that something else? That’s Zero Hour, which happens 8 years later. (Well, Zero Hour’s the culmination of it…I can’t remember the name of the story where he originally went kooky…Emerald Twilight?) ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/28 "2005-06-23T23:19:01Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > So this is why I can’t ever find the JSA vs. JLA issues that I remembered as a kid, they are part of the Crisis on Multiple Earths series. Okay, I’ll pick up the other 2 volumes of that and in the mean time I’ll read Crisis on Infinite Earths. Well those stories were originally in the Justice League OF America series (that ran until #261 or so, around 1986), but they are all reprinted in the Crisis On Multiple Earths TPBs, just to leave nothing to confusion. > [@adam yax](#): > > One last question… is Crisis on Infinite Earths the thing where Hal Jordan goes off the deep end, or is that something else? That story is “Emerald Twilight,” which ran from Green Lantern v.2 #48-50, and is reprinted in a TPB. Actually, the seeds were sown in the “Reign of the Supermen” storyline, where Mongul destroyed Hal’s home of Coast City, but “Emerald Twilight” is where Hal’s “heel turn” first occurred. Then he was revealed to be the big bad guy behind the “Zero Hour: Crisis In Time” crossover event from 1994, which is also reprinted in a TPB. Zero Hour was a pretty important storyline to the overall DCU continuity, but I don’t think it was particularly well-done. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/29 "2005-06-23T23:31:14Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > One last question… is Crisis on Infinite Earths the thing where Hal Jordan goes off the deep end, or is that something else? Hey! One that I can answer (kinda). Hal Jordan (the Silver Age Green Lantern) was pissed off at the Guardians of the Universe (the little blue guys that ran the Green Lantern Corps) because although they had the power to restore his home town which had been destroyed they refused. So in a 3 issue arc called “Emerald Twlight” Hal flew off to Oa (home of the Guardians) killing any GLs that got in his way. There he absorbed the full power of the Central Power Battery, source of all GL power, becoming the super-powerful Parallax. Parallax pops up here and there giving the new GL, Kyle Rayner, and the Justice League problems, but in **Zero Hour** he really goes to work and attempts to re-con the universe back time traveling back to the Big Bang and re-making it as he wanted (sound like the Anti-Monitor’s plan? I thought so too). Well, the universe does get re-booted and some things change slightly. In a sense **Zero Hour** is a mini- **Crisis on Infinite Earths**. On preview: what **Tengu** and **Lou** said. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/30 "2005-06-24T00:51:49Z")
What I’m wondering is, will the upcoming “Crisis” be something along the lines of “Crisis On Infinite Earths”? If so, then the real reason all of these current controversial story lines are coming out now is because _they plan on another major reboot and none of these stories matter the least little bit._ Want to kill off long running characters? Go right ahead-it just doesn’t matter. Want to turn the World’s Greatest Superheroes in mind-manipulating scum that would even turn on their own? Go right ahead-it just doesn’t matter. Want to reveal all the secret identities of all the superheroes to a quasi-governmental agency? Go right ahead-it just doesn’t matter. Want to pit Blue Devil and Detective Chimp against an all-powerful Spectre and not get your ass fired and become the greatest laughingstock in comic history? Go right ahead-it just doesn’t matter. Is there any evidence that this type of cheap trickery isn’t in the works? ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/31 "2005-06-24T01:36:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there any evidence that this type of cheap trickery isn’t in the works? Not really. As has been said, there’s very little coming out of DC over what the coming Crisis actually will be. Here’s what we know: -There’s a Crisis coming. It will suck (for the heroes, hopefully the readers will enjoy it). -Afterwards, the editors at DC are going to play some musical chairs and swap books. -After the Inf-Cri (I think I’ll call it that, to distinguish it from Id-Cri), the books will jump ahead one year in continuity. The missing year to be revealed at some point. -Geoff Johns (DC’s continuity wizard and writer of Inf-Cri itself) and Grant Morrison (mad font of creativity) have been hired in an editorial position to provide guidance on how the DCU will be shaped in the aftermath. While I think DC is using this oppurtunity to shake up and revitalize things, I don’t think it’s a continuity wipe a la Crisis. Yeah, big sweeping chages and all the buzzwords make me nervous too, but I’ve been enjoying the lead-up so far, and the folks involved are very, very talented, so I’m optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/32 "2005-06-24T01:40:54Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > Teen Titans: So apparently Donna Troy is going to play a big part in the upcoming “Crisis.” What the hell? I only know her as Kyle Rayner’s least attractive girlfriend (behind the red-headed version of Alex as seen in Circle of Fire and Jade). Was she ever a major player? Also has Cassie always been able to do the lightening lasso thing or is that new? > > Legion of Super-Heroes: Brainy with emotions. He’s my second favorite legionaire now, after Karate Kid. I loved his Lewis Blackesque critique of Light Lass and Star Boy. As I understand it, the original writer of TT didn’t understand that Wonder Girl was just a tale about Wonder Woman’s past, so included her in the teen version of the JLA. Donna Troy was backward formed, so to speak. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/33 "2005-06-24T12:50:38Z")
Nice detailed answers to the Crisis question - just want to add a tidbit of trivia - during the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Hal was pretty much a civilian, having temporarily given up the ring. In fact, as far as I can tell, he is the only hero in the DCU who does not appear on the huge Alex Ross poster that serves as the source of the cover for the Crisis TPB. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/34 "2005-06-24T14:02:26Z")
**Czarcasm** , I think you’re being overly pessimistic. First of all, when DC reboots a storyline, nobody comes to your house and tears up all your old comics from before the reboot. So the fact that a story gets rebooted doesn’t mean that the power of that story is wasted. Second, Inf-Crisis is almost certainly not going to be the massive reboot that Crisis was – first of all, DC is well aware of all the problems that caused. And look at the people in charge – Dan Didio, a pre-Crisis DC fan, plus Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison. Two guys that could not be more different in style and approach except for one thing – every issue they write they pull stuff from the past into the mainstream DCU. Johns fixed Hawkman, brought back Hector Hall from Sandman, and has written JSA for years. Morrison did DC 1M (which is the Silver Age in disguise) and is now writing a miniseries about Klarion the frikkin’ witch boy. Plus he was one of the prime movers behind hypertime. It seems clear to me that all these guys think DC gave up something during Crisis. Whatever the post-Inf-Crisis DCU looks like, I doubt it will totally forget whatever came before. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/35 "2005-06-24T15:03:38Z")
About Hawkman: Isn’t he dead? How does that effect JSA Hawkman? Wasn’t the now dead Hawkman the combination of all the Hawks ever as formed in Zero Hour? Has he done anything super-duper? I remember him being described as a new god, but I don’t recall him doing anything that cool during Zero Hour. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/36 "2005-06-24T15:10:44Z")
**Wolfian** , Donna Troy was only one of the most popular characters in one of the most popular comic series of all time. Not to mention the fact that she has ties to Wonder Woman. The fact that you only know her as the short-term girlfriend of a character who’s been around a fraction of the time Donna has doesn’t make her an insignificant character. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/37 "2005-06-24T15:28:24Z")
Donna Troy was popular? I must have missed a memo. I despise her. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/38 "2005-06-24T15:33:51Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Donna Troy was popular? I must have missed a memo. I despise her. :eek: :mad: Them’s fightin’ woids! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/39 "2005-06-24T15:34:10Z")
She’s so popular that she is constantly being retconned and revamped, killed off and brought back, all in the hopes of finding something interesting to do with her. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458/40 "2005-06-24T15:35:49Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > She’s so popular that she is constantly being retconned and revamped, killed off and brought back, all in the hopes of finding something interesting to do with her. Hee. To me, she’s a walking continuity error, and always will be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weekly-comic-book-discussion-6-23-2005/309458.md?page=3)