# Weird Bad Religion / King Crimson connection
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 12, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814 "2003-05-12T22:55:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/1 "2003-05-12T22:55:33Z")
This might be of interest to fans of either band. An obvious influence, then a coincidence.
In Bad Religion’s popular tune from around 1990, _21st Century Digital Boy_, they sing the lines
> [@](#):
>
> Innocents raped with napalm fire
> Everything I want, I really don’t need
Which is almost directly lifted from the King Crimson song from 1969, _21st Century Schizoid Man_
> [@](#):
>
> Innocents raped with napalm fire…
> Nothing he’s got, he really needs
The odd coincidence…the third track on that King Crimson album is entitled _Epitaph_, which is also the name of the popular record label on which Bad Religion has been releasing albums for quite some time.
Just found it odd to see a connection between a melodic punk band and an obscure prog rock band best known for feeding musicians into Yes, Bad Company, Foreigner, and ELP.
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### Author:  [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/2 "2003-05-12T23:19:12Z")
Very interesting. I’d never heard about this. I went Googling for the Bad Religion lyrics and found that they stole more than just those two lines–the preceding lines are “Cat’s foot, iron claw/Neurosurgeons scream for more,” which is lifted verbatim from the Crimson song.
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### Author:  [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/3 "2003-05-12T23:29:21Z")
During the ending of 21st century Digital boy they use the like “21st century schizo boy” as well, it very well may be an homage of sorts.
Epitaph is not only the label thy record on the Label was started by Bad Religion’s Greg Graffin.
On the album Against the Grain the covered 21st Century Schizoid Man.
In fact 21st century digital boy was basically a rewrite on the stranger than fiction album because they felt they could do better than heir cover of schizoid.
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### Author:  [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/4 "2003-05-12T23:53:43Z")
All I can say is that if you look hard enough, their isn’t much in modern music that can’t be linked to Robert Fripp and/or King Crimson.
ie very direct links to
Bowie
Eno
Peter Gabriel
Toyah
Blondie
David Sylvian
The Damned
Brian Ferry
Midge Ure
…
…
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### Author:  [@23skidoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/23skidoo)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/5 "2003-05-13T00:34:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by BurnMeUp \*
> \*\*On the album Against the Grain the covered 21st Century Schizoid Man.
>
> In fact 21st century digital boy was basically a rewrite on the stranger than fiction album because they felt they could do better than heir cover of schizoid. \*\*
21st Century Schizoid Man is not on “Against the Grain”, that’s 21st Century Digital Boy.
It was re-recorded for “Stranger than Fiction”.
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### Author:  [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/6 "2003-05-13T00:52:56Z")
Sorry about that you’re right, but it was their “reworking” of 21st century skitzoid man.
As to whether they named the label after the song Epitaph _shrug_
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### Author:  [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/7 "2003-05-13T00:59:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Bippy the Beardless \*
> **All I can say is that if you look hard enough, their isn’t much in modern music that can’t be linked to Robert Fripp and/or King Crimson.**
Yeah, I’m only two degrees of separation from Fripp myself. (I used to play with a guy who’s on the League of Crafty Guitarists albums.)
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### Author:  [@Skillet38](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skillet38)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/8 "2003-05-13T01:23:08Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by RexDart \*
> \*\*This might be of interest to fans of either band. An obvious influence, then a coincidence.
>
> Just found it odd to see a connection between a melodic punk band and an obscure prog rock band best known for feeding musicians into Yes, Bad Company, Foreigner, and ELP. \*\*
whoaaaaaaaaaa there laddy. King Crimson is best known for writing some of the most original barrier breaking wonderfully fantasmagorific music in the whole known universe for god’s sake, not for “feeding musicians” into other acts.
Of course, Bill Bruford left YES to join Fripp and company so that’s the opposite. As for Greg Lake et al… u talkin ancient history, and KC is still alive and kicking.
Hey, it’s not every day I see King Crimson in a title in Cafe… scuse me if I gets a tad excited
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### Author:  [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/9 "2003-05-13T05:03:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Skillet38 \*
> \*\* As for Greg Lake et al… u talkin ancient history, and KC is still alive and kicking.
> \*\*
Well, considering the heights reached by ELP, the Greg Lake connection is pretty noteworthy. And I wouldn’t have even _heard_ of King Crimson originally if I hadn’t been browsing the online Yes discography under the musician categories to see what else Bruford had done.
As far as being “alive and kicking”, does anything after _Red_ really count? They didn’t release anything for like 8 years after that, and although I haven’t heard KC’s 80’s and onward stuff, I daresay every other 70’s band I’ve ever heard sounded totally changed when they returned for the 80’s. Ever listened to _90125_? Ugh. It’s not that I demand a band remain exactly the same, it’s just that the 70’s bands were completely unable to remain on the edge of music in the 80’s because they caught on too late and lacked the innovative skill in the new styles.
For instance, I’m a big Tull fan and I suppose the only constant in Jethro Tull’s lineup is Ian Anderson, but some fans consider _Stormwatch_ the end of “real” Tull because of the drastic lineup change thereafter. I certainly enjoy _A_, but the songs on it do just what I’m talking about, they try to experiment with electronic sound (rightly seeing that would be big in the 80’s), but they’re dabbling with something they weren’t on the leading edge of and consequently lack the true inspiration of their 70’s albums. I’m usually pretty quick to disown the 80’s+ incarnations of the great 70’s bands.
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### Author:  [@AquaPura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AquaPura)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/10 "2003-05-13T05:10:39Z")
Woah…
I was shocked to see a Bad Religon thread here at the Dope. I was converted to the punk scene by my boyfriend, kicking, screamin, and harpin, that I hated it. Of course, now I love it. I went to their concert here at the Rave last year. All I could say was woah, Greg Graffin has passion. I then fell in love with them.
More on topic…
It seems that many, many, groups pay homage to bands, writers, speakers, or whatever that inspires them. I don’t see it as plagarisim, but instead a way to give voice to what they love, and what inspired them.
~aqua
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/11 "2003-05-13T05:58:14Z")
I wouldn’t say it’s plagiarism either… it’s definitely an homage, and the fact that Graffin sings “21st Century Schizoid Boy” at the end there makes it pretty clear, I think.
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### Author:  [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/12 "2003-05-13T12:24:19Z")
Whooa RexDart! If you haven’t heard any of KC’s 80’s stuff and onward you are seriously missing out on some amazing music. Yes, they are very much alive, kicking and innovative.
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### Author:  [@Skillet38](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skillet38)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-bad-religion-king-crimson-connection/174814/13 "2003-05-13T14:31:53Z")
dittos to what Satasha said. When Crimson reformed with Adrien Belew in the '80s, their next three albums. Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perfect Pair. Were stunning and in no way were they in any way a compromise.
They’ve continued to evolve and not “devolve” like so many great bands of the '70s
Dont’ knock something you haven’t heard
dude 🙂