# Weird British pronunciation **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 24, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738 "2018-05-24T17:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/21 "2018-05-26T03:26:25Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > It’s Americans that mispronounce Jaguar as “jag-wah”. Everywhere else, it’s jag-you-ah. And if we’re talking big cats, I was completely mystified as to what a “poo-ma” was until I saw a picture and realised it’s what Americans call a puma. Which is correctly pronounced “pew-ma”, in case you’re wondering. Actually, the OED1 (the OED3 hasn’t reached it yet), “jag-wah” is the more correct of the two. (Neither one is very close to the original Amerindian word.) And “poo-ma” is not normal American English, though it is the normal pronunciation in nearly all languages that have the word, so it wouldn’t particularly surprise me to learn that some Americans have picked it up from Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/22 "2018-05-26T03:33:47Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > It irks me too, because Aus has a holier-than-thou attitude towards pronunciation that they turn on themselves. > > It was skedule in my school, which was 75% hereditary Australians, and skedule all across northern Victoria according to my friends and contacts. But shedule is the “correct” pronunciation, and anyone who doesn’t pronounce it that way isn’t Australian enough. “Ske”, is actually correct. Talbot, Wolfe, and Nelson weep in their graves whenever an Englishman treats a Latin or Greek word as though it were on loan from the froggies. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/23 "2018-05-26T03:38:26Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Two I’ve noticed: > > Aluminum > American: A LOO mi num > British: Al you MIN you mum That is Sir Humphrey Davy’s fault. He couldn’t make up his mind, and used both. > [@](#): > > Nicaragua > American: Nic a ROG wa > British: Nic a RAG you wa Neither one is particularly good. The _y_ in the British pronunciation is an unwarranted intrusion, while the _w_ in both is a humiliating insult to the original _u_. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/24 "2018-05-26T03:44:14Z")
> [@piston\_broke](#): > > I don’t think any English speaker knows the correct pronunciation of Quixote. Is it kee-o-tay or quik-sot? > > Lord Byron went for the latter: > > A jest, a riddle, Fame through thin and thick sought! > And Socrates himself but Wisdom’s Quixote? > > Another oddity is Magdalene College - _Mawdlin_ College to you and I. > > But, for me, the stupidest pronunciation of all is Cholmondeley - which of course we all recognise as _Chumley_. Really. The _Quixote_ problem is a wretched one, involving changes in the spelling and pronunciation of Spanish, and further complicated by the acceptance of “quixotic” as an English word. Cervantes pronounced it kee-shoat-ay, which no one does now but students of medieval Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/25 "2018-05-26T09:49:22Z")
> [@piston\_broke](#): > > I don’t think any English speaker knows the correct pronunciation of Quixote. Is it kee-o-tay or quik-sot? > > Lord Byron went for the latter: > > A jest, a riddle, Fame through thin and thick sought! > And Socrates himself but Wisdom’s Quixote? > since > Another oddity is Magdalene College - _Mawdlin_ College to you and I. > > But, for me, the stupidest pronunciation of all is Cholmondeley - which of course we all recognise as _Chumley_. Really. Kwik-sot has been the standard English form since the 17th century. The French call him Don Quichotte. All languages adapt foreign forms to suit their own tongue although over the last century or so English speakers seem to think Anglicization is somehow wrong. Hence Don Kwiksot has gone the way of Don John or Joo-an and King Lewis, leaving the adjective quixotic stranded like a fish out of water. (Does anyone really say key-ottic?) And why Beijing but not Munchen, Firenze or Paree? Perhaps the Chinese have more clout although it hasn’t seemed to work with other languages, most of which retain the traditional form. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/26 "2018-05-26T11:50:12Z")
Norwich, Harwich - Norridge, Harridge Warwick, Berwick, Chiswick - Worik, Berik, Chizik Derby, Berkeley - Darby, Barkly Names: Beauchamp - Beecham Menzies - Mingus Caius College, Oxford - Keez College. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/27 "2018-05-26T12:34:50Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Caius College, Oxford - Keez College. That should be Caius College, Cambridge. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/28 "2018-05-26T18:50:00Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Norwich, Harwich - Norridge, Harridge > > Warwick, Berwick, Chiswick - Worik, Berik, Chizik > > Derby, Berkeley - Darby, Barkly > Names: > > Beauchamp - Beecham > > Menzies - Mingus > > Caius College, Oxford - Keez College. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > That should be Caius College, Cambridge. Worst pronunciation ever! ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/29 "2018-05-26T21:01:42Z")
And borough is boro until it’s a suffix, then it’s “bruh.” Just forget it. They invented it, we perfected it. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/30 "2018-05-26T21:43:55Z")
As a Scot who grew up knowing the correct (and in our case local) pronunciation of the likes of “Colquhoun” and others, the one that’s always puzzled me as the trip-up for foreigners is the Glasgow suburb of Bearsden. Classically pronounced by foreigners and supposedly even English newsreaders as “Beers-din”. But it’s actually even spelt “Bears-den” … ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/31 "2018-05-26T22:32:45Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > And why Beijing but not Munchen, Firenze or Paree? Perhaps the Chinese have more clout although it hasn’t seemed to work with other languages, most of which retain the traditional form. I suspect it may have something to do with the active promotion of pinyin romanization within China itself, leading to the promulgation of the new spelling outside China too. A significant number of people outside China seem to think that the city actually changed its name. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Norwich, Harwich - Norridge, Harridge Harwich is pronounced harritch. Most -wich places are pronounced (w)itch rather than (w)idge – e.g. Woolwich = woolitch , Sandwich = sandwitch. Norwich is an interesting one, though. As I recall, in a Norfolk accent you are correct, local folk say norridge. But people who don’t live in the area would most likely pronounce it norritch. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/32 "2018-05-27T00:09:13Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I suspect it may have something to do with the active promotion of pinyin romanization within China itself, leading to the promulgation of the new spelling outside China too. A significant number of people outside China seem to think that the city actually changed its name. > > Harwich is pronounced harritch. Most -wich places are pronounced (w)itch rather than (w)idge – e.g. Woolwich = woolitch , Sandwich = sandwitch. > > Norwich is an interesting one, though. As I recall, in a Norfolk accent you are correct, local folk say norridge. But people who don’t live in the area would most likely pronounce it norritch. The 'wich is pronounced more like 'idge in some place names, e.g. Greenwich (grenidge), Woolwich (wallidge) and Norwich (norridge). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/33 "2018-05-27T00:14:32Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I suspect it may have something to do with the active promotion of pinyin romanization within China itself, leading to the promulgation of the new spelling outside China too. A significant number of people outside China seem to think that the city actually changed its name. There are not a few ways to “speak Chinese”. The more common way that foreigners are familiar with is the Cantonese dialect (because, Hong Kong is a major port, and a lot of Cantonese people emigrated thence). In modern Cantonese, “North Capital” is pronounced something like “bak ging”, where the first vowel falls somewhere between “ah” and “uh”. “Beijing” arose because Mao&co standardized Mandarin as the national way to speak and make sure it gets taught and used everywhere. The local dialects survive because Mandarin is not really very pleasant to the ear of most anyone for whom it is not the native tongue (which, ironically, included Mao himself). ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/34 "2018-05-27T00:18:26Z")
So, French influence notwithstanding, standard, benchmark English is pronounced as though one had a [cork in one’s mouth](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4166036.stm): > [@Michael Rundle](#): > > Performance coach Darren Smallridge, and head of professional development Bruce Wooding, gave me a crash course in learning the basics of this cut-glass accent, although their techniques were somewhat unorthodox. > > For example, wedging a cork in my mouth and attempting to read lines from Julius Caesar was invaluable, helping me keep the tongue flat and speaking with restricted lip movement, but I did feel like a snake who had tried to open a wine bottle with his fangs, only to get stuck. > > Darren and Bruce were, however, remarkable tutors. After only a short time I had at least grasped the basics of RP. That should account for most of the phenomena mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/35 "2018-05-27T00:57:43Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > The 'wich is pronounced more like 'idge in some place names, e.g. Greenwich (grenidge), Woolwich (wallidge) and Norwich (norridge). I pronounce all three -itch, not -idge. I’m native to West London. I see now that where the pronunciation is shown, Wiki and other online sources seem to list both pronunciations as variants for most of these. With the emphasis is on the first syllable, the difference is barely noticeable, I think. ---
**Author:** ![piston\_broke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/278dde/32.png) [@piston\_broke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piston_broke)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/36 "2018-05-27T14:13:24Z")
> [@bonzer](#): > > As a Scot who grew up knowing the correct (and in our case local) pronunciation of the likes of “Colquhoun” and others, the one that’s always puzzled me as the trip-up for foreigners is the Glasgow suburb of Bearsden. Classically pronounced by foreigners and supposedly even English newsreaders as “Beers-din”. But it’s actually even spelt “Bears-den” … Milngavie is even more confusing. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/37 "2018-05-27T16:48:34Z")
> [@piston\_broke](#): > > Milngavie is even more confusing. That is because anglicized spellings often tend to be messed up. The correct spelling is “_Muileann-Gaidh_”, which, if you cannot read Scots Garlic, looks daunting. If you see a Scottish name that has letters that are not in the Garlic alphabet (j, k, q, v, w, x, y or z), you can guess that it has been anglicized and that your attempted on-sight pronunciation will be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/38 "2018-05-27T20:55:38Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > There are not a few ways to “speak Chinese”. […]The local dialects survive because Mandarin is not really very pleasant to the ear of most anyone for whom it is not the native tongue (which, ironically, included Mao himself). So cantonese has persisted because it’s so pleasant on the ear? :dubious: Mandarin being the common tongue is a relatively recent development. Within provinces that didn’t used to speak Mandarin, which is the majority, you are of course going to have a long period where few can speak Mandarin, then a period where many can speak it, but as a second language. Whether you move to a point where it’s most people’s first language depends on a number of economic and cultural factors. As with many countries, at the point where a regional language is close to disappearing completely, the government belatedly does a U turn, and decides to instead try to encourage use of that language before it’s completely lost to history. And of course, it’s usually too late, as with the case of the Manchu language. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/39 "2018-05-27T21:26:23Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > So cantonese has persisted because it’s so pleasant on the ear? :dubious: To a non-speaker, Cantonese sounds like an argument while Mandarin sounds like someone dragging their tongue over a pack of wet coyotes. My friends were almost all Cantonese, so I made some effort to learn a bit of it and can appreciate the sound because it is slightly less foreign to me. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738/40 "2018-05-27T21:29:41Z")
> [@piston\_broke](#): > > Milngavie is even more confusing. Of course, but at least it’s obvious why that counts as one of those weird cases that confuse by not being pronounced the way it’s spelt. Bearsden, on the other hand … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-british-pronunciation/814738.md?page=3)