# Weird Question about a 20th century playwriting pair **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** theater-stage-dance\ **Created:** [December 20, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939 "2024-12-20T18:50:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/21 "2024-12-22T02:19:41Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > That’s very weird, because it defiunitely does on my computer I tried changing the dates to 1930-1942. The line is so straight that micrometers would be necessary to find a bump. That’s when I use your link. When I go in on my own I get “no valid ngrams to plot!” over any time period. Totally weird. I also tried the Loc’s Chronicling America newspaper database. Of the 400 or so hits before Hart’s death I opened a couple of dozen, in papers large and small, and early times and late. Not a single one actually showed Moss and Hart. > [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Maybe being called Moss was his preference? It would appear he had ample opportunity to set the record straight. Wouldn’t the phrase then be Kaufman and Moss? Or Moss and Kaufman? I don’t think anybody ever wrote George and Kaufman. And Hart died in 1961. Only a couple of Cal’s cites were earlier than that, and in pretty obscure papers. He might never have noticed or just laughed it off. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/22 "2024-12-22T02:28:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I tried changing the dates to 1930-1942. The line is so straight that micrometers would be necessary to find a bump. I checked again using my link. I get an undeniable hump through the 1930s. Definite and unmistakable. There’s another starting about 1970 or so that’s much bigger ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/23 "2024-12-22T02:37:29Z")
What do you get if you click on the book links below the chart? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/24 "2024-12-22T02:41:16Z")
What book links? There’s nothing below the chart. I used to get some links, but not any more. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/25 "2024-12-22T02:43:33Z")
I give up. The internet has defeated me. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/26 "2024-12-22T02:46:15Z")
How do I link to a picture? It’s been a long time since I did it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/27 "2024-12-22T02:48:50Z")
You can only link to a picture if it has its own separate URL. When I click on your link above I get this view. > **[Google Books Ngram Viewer](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=moss%2Band%2Bhart&year_start=1930&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=true)** > > Google Ngrams: moss+and+hart, 1930-2022 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/28 "2024-12-22T02:52:04Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You can only link to a picture if it has its own separate URL. I know that. But I don’t recall the name of the application I can use to place a picture in. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/29 "2024-12-22T03:01:08Z")
I know some people use Imgur. Others are recommended. Still, try hitting the link I gave and tell me what you see. I tried digging in the Media History database, and pulled up a hit from the [February 15, 1934 Hollywood Reporter](https://archive.org/details/hollywoodreporte1821holl/page/423/mode/1up?q=%22moss+and+hart%22). I think it only makes the situation worse. > Page 423 > > New York. — Clear up the bright spots, some of the nice folks are coming back to Hollywood. The list of those en route includes Mr. and Mrs. Ricardo Cortez (Chrissie Lee) , Ruth Donnelly, George F. Kaufman, that famous team of Moss and Hart, and Sigfried Rumann, who will play in the Fox picture, “The World Moves On.” Maybe it was an inside joke that Hart was so prolific he was a team to himself? Weak, but that joke type was rife in the period. Otherwise no hits in the entire database. Oh, and, “the team of Moss and Hart” is separate from George F. Kaufman. Who he? George **S.** Kaufman was Hart’s partner. That mistake is all over the internet, sometimes found next to George S. Kaufman. Kaufman’s middle name was Simon, BTW. If we can explain that mistake, Moss and Hart might fall right into place. Or not, on a night like this when the internet is winning. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/30 "2024-12-22T03:31:22Z")
Your plot looks nothing like what I see. That’s why I wanted to find a place to put the screen capture. What happens if you try this? > **[Google Books Ngram Viewer](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Moss%2Band%2BHart&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=true#)** > > Google Ngrams: Moss and Hart, 1800-2022 Nope. I tried that and it looked like what you had. But it’s not what’s on my screen at all. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/31 "2024-12-22T03:33:53Z")
Try this: [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/JNh0Ae7.png?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/PlRdzY5) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/32 "2024-12-22T03:36:54Z")
Here’s a closer look (I hope). No links underneath [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/MjSDmkS.png?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/Oqclile) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/33 "2024-12-22T03:39:59Z")
Don’t use “moss+hart” in the search line. use Moss and Hart – no “plus” signs or quotation marks. Capitalize the names. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/34 "2024-12-22T03:55:21Z")
moss+and+hart is what appeared when I clicked your link. My input earlier was moss and hart. However, when I go there now I get the same graph you display. When I narrow the dates to 1930-1961, I get "Search in Google Books and a link for 1930-1946. That gives three possible hits. > [ > > ### Fireman’s Fund Record - Volumes 62-63 - Page 9 > > [books.google.com](http://books.google.com) › books > ]([Fireman's Fund Record - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=SsMpAQAAMAAJ&q=%22moss+and+hart%22&dq=%22moss+and+hart%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiJvZmuu7qKAxUCrYkEHRNpMzMQ6AF6BAgJEAI)) > > 1940 · ‎Snippet view > > Found inside – Page 9 > > … _Moss and Hart_ seem to satisfy the needs of the young moderns . The old masters and the modern composers have many things in common , one of them being the ability to supply joy and hap- piness through the medi- um of music - the lan … > > ### The Nassau Herald - Page 318 > > [books.google.com](http://books.google.com) › books > ]([The Nassau Herald - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=-w9bAAAAYAAJ&q=%22moss+and+hart%22&dq=%22moss+and+hart%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiJvZmuu7qKAxUCrYkEHRNpMzMQ6AF6BAgHEAI)) > > 1940 · ‎Snippet view > > Found inside – Page 318 > > … _Moss and Hart_ at 301 '01 Hall . MacMurray plans to attend the College of Physicians and Surgeons at Columbia , and to become a doctor . He is an Episcopalian . His permanent address is 2424 Kalurama Road , Washington , D.C. WILLIAM … > > ### The Hollywood Reporter - Volume 29 - Page 2 > > [books.google.com](http://books.google.com) › books > ]([The Hollywood Reporter - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=x1pepmPT784C&q=%22moss+and+hart%22&dq=%22moss+and+hart%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiJvZmuu7qKAxUCrYkEHRNpMzMQ6AF6BAgKEAI)) > > 1935 · ‎Snippet view > > Found inside – Page 2 > > … _Moss and Hart_ ! " ( ! ) Henry Fonda , flying · to Omaha , for a vacation in the old home town . His pals will tell you that Jack Gilbert has been in love before - but never like this ! Hert , Floyd B. Odlum and E. L. Weisl . Last three … Another Moss and Hart joke in the _Hollywood Reporter_. But that gives no explanation to the later uses. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2024, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939/35 "2024-12-25T02:31:59Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Maybe it was an inside joke that Hart was so prolific he was a team to himself? Weak, but that joke type was rife in the period. Cf. the old joke about the clueless radio announcer who introduced a piece by “the great Russian composers Rimsky and Korsakov.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-question-about-a-20th-century-playwriting-pair/1011939.md?page=1)