# Weird retail or service industry policies... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 10, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796 "2012-07-10T15:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/81 "2012-07-19T07:17:24Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Nope! If that happens & they don’t go hog-wild, resulting in the card company catching in & proactively killing the card & sending me a new one then when I get the bill & review it, I call up & dispute the charge(s); either way I don’t pay for the fraudulent charges, the card issuer does. Your card agreement is obviously different to mine then. For my CC, if I am not taking proper care of my card, I am responsible for the charges. Of course, it’s not always that straightforward and card companies will normally work with you BUT, just saying “that card was stolen, and I didn’t know” doesn’t get you off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/82 "2012-07-19T08:01:42Z")
Burger King has made a very successful entrance into the Trinidad&Tobago market over the past several years, locations have been expanding. A while back every single location put up posters and banners outside advertising they now serve breakfast sandwiches just like in the USA, including putting the breakfast stuff on the menu. I occasionally have a craving for a greasy egg bisquit but have never found one store actually selling them. First they said despite the sign they didn’t serve breakfast til 11am, just 9am. Then they said that headquarters never sent the stuff to make breakfast, then they said they decided to only sell it for an hour after opening. I have never actually been able to get breakfast, I’m pretty sure aside from the advertisements no breakfast foods were ever sent out. Why? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/83 "2012-07-19T08:12:08Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > I asked the shopkeeper about it and his reply was to the effect that he he couldn’t keep them on the shelves so he gave up on ordering them as it was too much of a bother to keep restocking. :eek: > > I guess some old times like this guy were serious about their sleepy island ways. Tell me about it! I run into this bizarre shit in Trinidad all the time, hardly a sleepy island. Retail people will literally say shit like “uh that is such a hot seller I quit reordering” and then they scream and howl when international chains or professionally run chains come in and run them out of business. It is like they don’t understand the basics of retail, I mean upset at a hot seller? ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/84 "2012-07-19T08:18:18Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > In addition, if someone pays by CC then he has to pay taxes on it. No worries about this if cash. Our family hairdresser used to only accept cash, and I wondered if they were underreporting their income… 😛 They started taking cards earlier this year, however. And yes, it was a bit of a hassle remembering to have cash, especially for something like a cut-and-color session which isn’t cheap. But they do such a good job, and their prices are reasonable, so we put up with it. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/85 "2012-07-19T12:19:08Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Tell me about it! I run into this bizarre shit in Trinidad all the time, hardly a sleepy island. Retail people will literally say shit like “uh that is such a hot seller I quit reordering” and then they scream and howl when international chains or professionally run chains come in and run them out of business. > > It is like they don’t understand the basics of retail, I mean upset at a hot seller? That’s crazy. If its that much trouble raise the price to make it worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/86 "2012-07-19T13:49:02Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Tell me about it! I run into this bizarre shit in Trinidad all the time, hardly a sleepy island. Retail people will literally say shit like “uh that is such a hot seller I quit reordering” and then they scream and howl when international chains or professionally run chains come in and run them out of business. > > It is like they don’t understand the basics of retail, I mean upset at a hot seller? A guy with his own store may have different motivations. Maybe he’s just looking to get out of the house for a few hours and chat with with the customers. That will work if he is the only store in town, but corporations know there’s money to be made and will take all the business they can get. It reminds me of the demise of small hardware stores. While their staff was very knowledgeable and gave great advice, they had odd hours, an odd assortment of inventory, never really had everything I needed, and returns could be a hassle. Then Home Depot comes to town with their massive stores, computer controlled inventory, and no-hassle returns. The small stores could have survived if they somehow optimized to their niche, but instead they just complained about their loss of business and closed up. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/87 "2012-07-19T15:07:57Z")
> [@Klostertal](#): > > Merchant contract my ass. > > I work at a small, independently-owned retailer which has recorded over 75,000 over-the-counter transactions in the past year, around 90% of which are with a card. Our system does not do debit - all swipes are as credit, so they get a receipt to sign. There is no PIN to enter. Almost all the cards I see have neither a photo ID nor are they signed on the back. Therefore, we have no way to know whether the person making the purchase actually owns the card. So we check IDs. I’ve gotten hundreds and hundreds of “thank yous” from people who appreciate that we take the few seconds to check something so simple. Of course what we do isn’t 100% foolproof, but we think it’s worth it for the customers’ peace of mind. > > If Visa or Mastercard don’t like the fact that we make a small gesture to show our costumers that we are concerned about fraud, then fuck them. I don’t rely on cashiers for “peace of mind”. If the card issued to me is lost or stolen, I’ll report it and the company will cancel it immediately and reissue a new card with a new number. My deal is with my card issuer, and they say I do not need to show a merchant ID in order to use my card. When a cashier asks me for ID, I politely remind them that it is against the rules and if they insist, I file a complaint with the card issuer. When the card issuer responds to the complaint agreeing with me, they also notify the merchant. For added effect, I send a copy certified mail to corporate, the manager, consumer affairs and whoever else I can think of that might be useful. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/88 "2012-07-19T15:31:13Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > I don’t rely on cashiers for “peace of mind”. If the card issued to me is lost or stolen, I’ll report it and the company will cancel it immediately and reissue a new card with a new number. My deal is with my card issuer, and they say I do not need to show a merchant ID in order to use my card. > > When a cashier asks me for ID, I politely remind them that it is against the rules and if they insist, I file a complaint with the card issuer. When the card issuer responds to the complaint agreeing with me, they also notify the merchant. For added effect, I send a copy certified mail to corporate, the manager, consumer affairs and whoever else I can think of that might be useful. I’m with you. Part of the reason I use a credit card is that it’s convenient. When the cashier insists on seeing an ID, I gotta dig through my purse yet again, find my ID (which is rarely used, so no as accessible as my credit card), give it to them, and put it away again. I’d really prefer it if they just ran the flippin’ card and let me and the credit card company worry about fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/89 "2012-07-19T16:32:15Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > I don’t rely on cashiers for “peace of mind”. If the card issued to me is lost or stolen, I’ll report it and the company will cancel it immediately and reissue a new card with a new number. My deal is with my card issuer, and they say I do not need to show a merchant ID in order to use my card. > > When a cashier asks me for ID, I politely remind them that it is against the rules and if they insist, I file a complaint with the card issuer. When the card issuer responds to the complaint agreeing with me, they also notify the merchant. For added effect, I send a copy certified mail to corporate, the manager, consumer affairs and whoever else I can think of that might be useful. Jeez, what an ordeal over being asked for ID. You must be a riot at parties. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/90 "2012-07-19T16:38:32Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > When a cashier asks me for ID, I politely remind them that it is against the rules and if they insist, I file a complaint with the card issuer. When the card issuer responds to the complaint agreeing with me, they also notify the merchant. And you know what happens next? Absolutely nothing! The merchant carries on as before, the card issuer takes no further action, and people like you just get to make another complaint a few weeks later. Basically, almost no merchants ever have their ability to take cards revoked because they ask for ID. The card issuers are more interested in the revenue they get from the transactions than they are in actually enforcing this particular part of the merchant agreement. They might tut-tut and sympathize with you when you make your complaint, but they’re not actually going to do anything about it. > [@Athena](#): > > I’d really prefer it if they just ran the flippin’ card and let me and the credit card company worry about fraud. And yet, as people have already pointed out, it’s not just you and the company that have to “worry about fraud.” If fraudulent transactions take place, it’s often the merchant who ends up eating the cost. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/91 "2012-07-19T16:43:42Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > My barber is closed on Mondays AND Sundays, dadgummit! That’s not unusual where I live, particularly for small shops. In fact,I think it’s the rule. Do you get two days scheduled off a week? Why shouldn’t your barber? ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/92 "2012-07-19T16:51:37Z")
Rather than continuing this sidetrack, I started a poll: [Showing ID…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=659094) ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/93 "2012-07-19T17:11:48Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The card issuers are more interested in the revenue they get from the transactions than they are in actually enforcing this particular part of the merchant agreement. They might tut-tut and sympathize with you when you make your complaint, but they’re not actually going to do anything about it. > And yet, as people have already pointed out, it’s not just you and the company that have to “worry about fraud.” If fraudulent transactions take place, it’s often the merchant who ends up eating the cost. If fraudulent transactions take place, most of the time the credit card company eats the cost. The merchant simply has to prove that it followed the acceptance procedure outlined in the card service agreement. If the merchant followed all of the procedures and can produce a signed receipt, then the merchant will not be charged back. The cost of absorbing fraud is one of the drivers of credit card fees in general. Complaining to the card issuer does nothing, though not for the reasons you might say. The card issuer has no relationship with the merchants. This relationship is owned by the card acquirer and/or processor. The card issuer simply can’t just call the merchant and complain because that would violate the terms of the contract it has with the entity that signs the merchant up for credit card transactions in the first place. The issuer can’t pester the merchant any more than a merchant can pester a cardholder. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/94 "2012-07-19T17:21:25Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > If fraudulent transactions take place, most of the time the credit card company eats the cost. The merchant simply has to prove that it followed the acceptance procedure outlined in the card service agreement. If the merchant followed all of the procedures and can produce a signed receipt, then the merchant will not be charged back. The cost of absorbing fraud is one of the drivers of credit card fees in general. Which, of course, means that merchants have even more motivation to check for ID, given that they are the ones who see the card fees coming out of every transaction. > [@Maeglin](#): > > Complaining to the card issuer does nothing, though not for the reasons you might say. The card issuer has no relationship with the merchants. This relationship is owned by the card acquirer and/or processor. The card issuer simply can’t just call the merchant and complain because that would violate the terms of the contract it has with the entity that signs the merchant up for credit card transactions in the first place. The issuer can’t pester the merchant any more than a merchant can pester a cardholder. We might simply be running into a question of terminology here. How are you using these terms? Does the following reflect your terminology: [ul] [li]Card issuer = issuing bank, store, company, credit union, etc. (e.g., Bank of America, Sears, United Airlines, Navy Federal Credit Union)[/li] [li]Card Acquirer/Processor = the card companies (Visa, Mastercard, etc)[/li][/ul] Or are you using the terms differently? To be honest, i don’t think it matters much either way. Neither the individual issuing institutions, nor the card companies themselves, have any real interest in shutting down merchants who ask for ID, and despite the fact that Visa and Mastercard both have procedures for filing complaints about merchants who ask for ID, they treat those complaints as little more than pro-forma exercises, and are really not interested in taking any concrete steps to enforce that part of the merchant agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/95 "2012-07-19T17:27:56Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Not exactly retail, but the one thing I dislike about my doctor is her hours. Pretty much 9 to 5 with an hour off for lunch in the middle, Monday through Friday. Of course, now that I’m retired, I don’t mind it, but when I was working it guaranteed that if I needed to call or visit the office I had to take official time off from work to do it. Yes, it’s a small office, but so was the one I was working in, and we managed to arrange lunch breaks so that there was always someone to answer the phone. Along the same lines, my daughter’s orthodontist works 10am-4pm Monday through Friday. I can’t understand how they can expect kids to miss school every time they need their adjustment. Trying to get the 3-4 appointments are nearly impossible as every one wants them. Unfortunately, their hours changed after my daughter had the braces put on or I never would have gone to the office. If you cater to kids, having later hours and/or Saturday appointments make sense. I wouldn’t refer to him for this reason. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/96 "2012-07-19T17:33:24Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Actually, in most cases the merchant is the one who ends up paying for the fraudulent charge. If the issuer agrees with you (the cardholder) that the charge is fraudulent they pull the money back from the merchant’s account. Usually charging the merchant a fee, too. The merchant is then out the fee and whatever merchandise was sold. Correct. When a business is asking for ID it is protecting themselves just as much as the customer if not more. The customer can dispute the charge but the vendor still gets the money pulled away from them suffering the loss. The credit card companies don’t take the loss in most cases, the vendor does. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/97 "2012-07-19T17:33:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Do you get two days scheduled off a week? Why shouldn’t your barber? Exactly. And for a barber or a hairdresser, I think far more customers would rather have them open on Saturdays than on Mondays. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/98 "2012-07-19T17:35:43Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > If fraudulent transactions take place, most of the time the credit card company eats the cost. > [@Foxy40](#): > > The credit card companies don’t take the loss in most cases, the vendor does. We seem to have some disagreement here. Anyone know which of these positions is accurate? ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/99 "2012-07-19T17:39:44Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > If fraudulent transactions take place, most of the time the credit card company eats the cost. The merchant simply has to prove that it followed the acceptance procedure outlined in the card service agreement. If the merchant followed all of the procedures and can produce a signed receipt, then the merchant will not be charged back. The cost of absorbing fraud is one of the drivers of credit card fees in general. I am not sure why you think that unless various credit card processing companies have different policies. I took a phone credit card to pay off a medical bill. The card holder disputed the charge and that money was out of my account by the next billing cycle. Because it was a service and not a tangible item, I could rebill the patient but if we were talking about a big screen tv, I would have been screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796/100 "2012-07-19T17:41:16Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > We seem to have some disagreement here. > > Anyone know which of these positions is accurate? Maybe there are different merchant agreements for different businesses? That is all I can think of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-retail-or-service-industry-policies/627796.md?page=6)