Thanks, that was informative. It must take a long time to master that. Is there such a thing as sign translators who can read signs say in American Sign Language and give signs for say French or Spanish viewers?
Yes, very few, and they are often Deaf.
It’s very hard for someone whose native language is neither language being interpreted. I have interpreted Jewish services, and the Hebrew prayers that I know well, and know the meaning of, are hard for me to keep up with.
It always depends on the resources available. In all the Deaf gatherings I’ve been to, it is normal to grab a few community leaders to help out by translating from ASL to LSQ or vice-versa for everyone (LSQ is the sign language used in Quebec). But I see this because I live on the Ontario/Quebec border (both communities are big/active and apart of a larger Deaf community). Questions do come afterwards if you arrived late or want clarifications, but these can also be handled by your friends/neighbours too.
Things are different for official gatherings that are not organized by/for members of the Deaf community; laws dictate that official interpreters must be available for ASL and/or LSQ depending on many factors.
Gallaudet University draws students from all over the world, who know their country’s signed language, and then learn ASL after 4 years at Gallaudet.
They make great interpreters, and lots of times, when a European country intends something for international broadcast, they will have a Deaf interpreter interpret by watching the hearing interpreter who is listening to the speaker, then the Deaf interpreter interprets from the local signed language into ASL.
FWIW, ASL, or languages similar enough to be intelligible to people who know ASL, are used in lots of places around the world. It has to do with people from the US setting up the first national schools for the Deaf, using signed languages.
I was in Costa Rica last summer, and could communicate with Deaf people there just fine.
Oh, also, I was treated for carpal tunnel syndrome, and told I had to quit interpreting; I can still have conversations with friends, though. So I still socialize with Deaf people all the time.
Wow, this is fascinating stuff! So more questions for RivkahChaya:
–Are there prestige levels in the deaf community for different dialects? Are there any so different (at least in ASL) that they’re hard for other deaf people to understand?
–Are there any deaf people who don’t want to use sign language and why?
I’ve been looking up ASL articles on Wikipedia and it’s pretty intriguing stuff: British and American Sign Language share only a third of the symbols, there are “white” and “black” variants of ASL, and areas with large areas of deaf people like Martha’s Vineyard once had their own local version of sign language.
If you are interested, here’s yesterday’s [=68.ARA-CNY8dl5YwySTLvdQy2zbcDQzy7GeWvnnasn9A4chwsp-Y8O8snUGUrJsbyfHV2v5ml-N7TgiESGoz6zV4kI-xiNXqUV5NOgWJounit-nvWsE0BHAnL3r63AaqcIn0YFKiPGrS7pzVFMjGwIBbLi4RLdP-Yl6ojnflvQbb2PS-V9GtLK7-BO0D1iifuzqn9KXh-IDDp_5wNudcKqlXBCTf0YwsLGBJ1oULQ0gGdG-n-txpDcKXgt6hLtIXtfeg6QmNQ5nHqfVWJfv7fyPJAuPe7-tp-JCgBDUyTjiVzd_WRt_W3yzloC6WoGJRzGcGTQ4ML2FxyNLbm_A4Ij199b_9xNtzyE_p_ilsXR2BnQnd6nwk2aJUIcY&tn=H-R"]Corona Virus update from New Brunswick](Public Health gives update on New Brunswick COVID-19 on Monday | Public Health gives an update on New Brunswick COVID-19, the novel coronavirus, on Monday. | By CBC New Brunswick | Facebook[0).
The woman on the left is signing in MSL (Maritimes Sign Language) and the one on the right is using LSQ (Langue des signes du Québec). These are the two most used sign languages in that multilingual province (MSL being the one used east of Québec). Canada in a big country, with many localized dialects of English, French, and ASL too.
As for prestige, that’s kinda a jerk judgement call there. I have yet to run into Deaf people who were not earnest in their respect for language rights.
Are the dialect differences severe? Some are, some are not. Again it all depends on what is being said, who is saying it, how skilled are they… but signs nevertheless do differ (think of the generational difference between a zoomer versus a boomer, sure both are using English but they might not share the same vocab; when they want to communicate with each other they’ll just lean more heavy towards the vocab that they both do share).
Even spoken speech isn’t completely linear, one word after another. If I speak a sentence in one consistent low pitch, it means the same thing as if I speak the same sentence in one consistent high pitch (and a good thing, or men and women wouldn’t be able to communicate with each other). But if I slightly increase the pitch at the end of a sentence, that indicates that I’m asking a question, not making a statement. You can’t look at the tones of the individual words; you have to compare them to other words.
Writing is more linear, but even there, there are some nonlinear quirks. For instance, “$100” isn’t read as “dollars one hundred”; it’s “one hundred dollars”.
Sign languages are probably more nonlinear than vocal or written languages, but part of that is simply because they have more room that they can be more nonlinear. With vocal speech, I can say one word before another or after another, but I can’t say one above the other, or in front of or to the left of another. But in sign languages, I can. Why not use all of the information channels available?
No love for LSF or the famous Parisian school for the deaf (est. ~1750)? 
It could possibly be argued that “languages similar enough to be intelligible to people who know ASL”, including ASL itself, means the family of French sign languages.
Well, the history is that LSF came once to the US, and ASL went many times to other countries.
It’s a little like claiming that Yiddish had widespread influence: well, no. Yiddish has a lot of influence on US English, which IN TURN influenced world languages. Yiddish had pretty much no direct influence on Japanese, despite the round bread-things called “bagerus.” That came from the US, and US English.
Yes, spoken languages are quite more complex than I’ve given them credit for; however I’m having trouble conceptualizing written language as anything but a line of text (which is about as linear as one can get regardless of word ordering or addition of special symbols).
Another demonstration of the non-linearity of ASL would be RivkahChaya’s Dog bites Man scenario. Signers can use the full 3D space in front of their bodies to place the signs (Dog/Man) in two different spatial locations then show an action of biting from one actor to the other. This is just one way that Sign language breaks all the rules of linearity in communication. Signers need not follow a certain SOV or SVO or etc pattern. They are able to depict meaning in much more ways here. Signers can paint a picture in front of their bodies, then add movement, emotion, duration, etc… all in the service of communicating meaning.
If you are skilled at communication and expressive this picture can be worth much more than 1,000 words. But then again some English poet’s are also good at breaking English to communicate deep thought and emotion 100 years after they die too, so linearity is not completely useless.
I got some coursework in Translation and Interpretation a while back and we had a couple of sessions with a Deaf lady who among other things does a lot of work with BBC re. accesibility of programming.
She demonstrated the difference between “translating English to BSL (which btw does not have copulative verbs)” and “translating individual words from English to BSL” using the line “am I speaking too quickly?”
The word for word translation required spelling “am” (no copulative verb in BSL), then I, then speak, then quick?. The question mark was all facial expression.
The real sentence was “quick I???”.
But we have the same thing with oral languages. Today in another forum I explained how to say “act of God” in Spanish. The English is three short words and involves God; the Spanish is a single long word (imprevisible) and God is not involved.
If they were flapping their arms like birds, flipping the bird (okay enough bird stuff) and so on, then that would be inappropriate.
Just because someone is doing something like signing doesn’t mean that ALL expressions, movements, etc. are completely immune from criticism.
If a newspaper threw in a bunch of air quotes and other machinations to a quote of mine, I would not be happy.
There’s a scale here, folks. At one end is perfectly respectable behavior and the other end is just being weird. Some of these signers are moving too far up the scale.
But, and here’s the key thing, not all of them do! In fact, based on my experience this sort of over expression is quite uncommon. No one is lumping all signers into one category. (I hope.)
If all signers were like this one, this thread wouldn’t exist.
ftg that is just how Deaf people communicate. Would you offer the same criticism if you found a Spanish word (lets say “Negro”) equally as silly, or would you just endure. This complaint would only have merit if it was sourced from members of the Deaf community themselves. You, yourself, must recognize that if they are happy with the service then this must be standard for their communications, no?
If “flapping their arms like birds” is too inappropriate for you the only solution I can think of is that you not watch, but just stick to listening. I say this because in the end the Deaf community isn’t going to censor themselves just because certain people don’t like their mode of communication.
ETA: Oh, and interpreters are trained to match the linguistic register of the people who they are interpreting. If they are signing vulgarities, that’s because people are using vulgarities.
In ASL, it would be a lexical item that signifies “communicating in ASL,” or a lexical item that signifies “speaking an oral language copiously,” along with a facial expression that means, generally, “lots/big/abundance” or in some cases, “too much.” Then you would add a lexical item that indicates a question, and your facial expression would change. Optionally, you could morph your “communication” item into a commentary one that is generally translated “fast,” in many different contexts, and can apply to communication, cars, or the ability to fall asleep-- pretty much anything. There’s no need to say “I” if the fast speaker is asking. If one is asking it about someone else who is present, you point to that person. Otherwise, before the question, or before the entire statement, you use a name sign, or a fingerspelled name to indicate about whom you are speaking.
No, the key thing is that the OP does not know ASL, and is not qualified to judge whether the interpreter was “too far up the scale.”
Exactly.
I’m not sure about ASL, but in Australian sign language, that tongue sticking out can indicate something is being done in a reckless/careless/ignorant manner.
That’s pretty much what it means in ASL as well. It’s a very specific way of sticking out your tongue-- just the tip, like an exaggerated “TH” sound. It’s not at ALL like the way little kids do it when they are being rude.
Nor should the Deaf community ever be asked to do that.
I don’t understand why politicians speak with signers along side them but it is never used for regular news casts. And here in Chicago there are many more Spanish speakers than there are deaf people so why isn’t there some kind of bow to letting them understand the oration? Seems a bit “showy” to me.