# Weird Wild West Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801 "2009-07-30T19:03:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/201 "2009-08-04T14:53:48Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Preliminary opinions: > > It’s possible **Tom Scud** made a Scum slip. I find the wording to be strange - specifically focusing on the possibility of supernatural Scum power roles and ignoring the Town side of things. There is a good chance, though, that that was just bad wording. Now, bad wording can and does get people lynched in Mafia, but we’ll see. It was a freaking one-line post tossed off on the way out of the office. I’m sorry I didn’t write a frigging dissertation. I thought there were more likely to be supernatural Scum because, hello, horror genre? The bad guys generally have more supernatural stuff going on in the horror genre. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/202 "2009-08-04T14:54:51Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > It was a freaking one-line post tossed off on the way out of the office. I’m sorry I didn’t write a frigging dissertation. > > I thought there were more likely to be supernatural Scum because, hello, horror genre? The bad guys generally have more supernatural stuff going on in the horror genre. > > That is all. Now, bear in mind, we don’t KNOW that this is a horror genre game. It’s possible that the people with the mutilated bodies were fluffed to death by cute little bunny rabbits. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/203 "2009-08-04T14:59:20Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > FTR I didn’t play in the lost game and I voted for Boozy. True. I lurked Crimson Glyph, so I recognized your name in the way I didn’t recognize the names of any of the people who voted for me. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/204 "2009-08-04T15:04:37Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > It is worth looking closer at those who followed up on votes. I notice **Joey P** followed someone else’s lead with his 2 votes. But being the second voter for someone isn’t by itself a Scumtell. This is something that I noticed while I was catching up it kind of has the feeling of second is the new third vote. I’ve looked back through and he isn’t just doing me too votes so I’m not over suspicious of it yet. As far as the comment, by **Tom** of this being a weird game. I don’t see that there is much behind it. I think there being supernatural roles isn’t completely outside the box, I don’t think it’s likely but I can see where he drew his conclusion. As for the though that only the scum roles are supernatural, it is far more troubling. his explanation so far has been pretty reasonable and I’m willing to accept it as face value but think he merits further watching. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/205 "2009-08-04T15:20:15Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > Actually, I’m also interested in the multiple scum power roles part. > > I would be interested to know why you think that there is more than 1 scum power role which has a supernatural element? Now you’re just being silly. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/206 "2009-08-04T15:23:46Z")
Here’s the biggest problem–having lost most of the scum team to retardedly innocuous PIS slips last week on LOST (_cue synopsis_), and seeing how well it has worked in the past in more than one game, we need to be conscious of these kind of slips. Now, countering that, is the idea that I’m pretty on board with \*\*Tom’\*\*s ideas–when I saw “Weird Wild West” I thought, “awesome, mafia that might be based on Deadlands”. The only part that bothers me is the weird specificity of scum supernatural power roles–to counterexample Tom’s assertion, the “good guys” in both of the Weird Wild West examples I can think of (Wild Wild West (either version) and Deadlands) have amazing powers/abilities, even if they’re obviously supernatural in only the latter. Basically what I’m saying is that the jury is out and my vote will be highly influenced by how \*\*Tom \*\*continues to defend himself–but I’m not necessarily convinced by his rationales/defenses thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/207 "2009-08-04T15:28:06Z")
I’m back from my Boston trip. It took a bit longer to recover from it than I thought it would, I’m not as young as I used to be and that much driving is hard on a guy. I really dislike no editing as a policy. The window here is small enough that it isn’t really an issue. But whatever, I’m not going to make huge amounts of waves over it. I also won’t be voting solely for it however. I disagree with you NAF regarding early game Vig kills. Unless the Vig makes it a point to take out people that are high in suspicion already, like say the second leading vote getter or similar, there really isn’t much information generated. When Tom Scud got vigged in Lost, what information did Town receive really? Nothing. And lots of bodies early is pro-Scum, not pro-Town. Scum was able to dominate Smash Brothers because we were able to litter the ground with bodies faster than the Town could generate information. We probably still would have won, since we had the hidden Doctor that really wasn’t a Doctor, but it would have been a lot tougher row to hoe. I’m not buying that Tom made a scum slip. I know that when I saw the Weird part of the title, I was thinking there was either going to be a supernatural or maybe steam punk angle to the standard Wild West faire. When you add in the opening color, deciding it was supernatural seems like a logical decision. And, again based on the color, assigning said supernatual part to the scum is also logical. Meeko, would you please explain why exactly you are voting for Boozy? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/208 "2009-08-04T15:29:08Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Basically what I’m saying is that the jury is out and my vote will be highly influenced by how \*\*Tom \*\*continues to defend himself–but I’m not necessarily convinced by his rationales/defenses thus far. Honestly, I don’t know what else to say at this point. There’s only so much explication that a one-line post can bear. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/209 "2009-08-04T15:37:03Z")
Incidentally, I was thinking more of Weird Tales (the magazine that among other things published most of HP Lovecraft’s stuff) than of the game Deadlands when I saw the name “Weird”. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/210 "2009-08-04T15:37:54Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But do you think it’s wise to announce in the thread whom the vig should kill? If there’s a scum power role, it could block the vig’s kill, no? Missed this on my first read. As I understand it, with normal roleblocker game mechanics the scum would need to block the vig, not the vig’s target, in order to prevent the kill going through. Now that Tom has responded, I’ll say that I don’t find his speculation about supernatural roles suspicious. From his first post, #113, it’s clear he understands the closed setup makes it tricky to get discussion going. **Weird** could mean all sorts of things, but given poor purty Lucille’s dismemberment and the ominous messages, a horror element is plausible. Thinking along those lines, to consider supernatural scum power roles seems fairly natural, and a less jarring than supernatural townies (in horror, the good guys are traditionally powerless and vulnerable, adds to the tension). > [@storyteller0910](#): > > For the love of Pete, I just spent twenty minutes typing a post, and then got a database error when I tried to submit. Very annoying. I’ve seen a lot of board database errors over the last couple days, so I recommend saving any substantial posts before submitting. @ **Meeko** - Your post #188 isn’t that helpful, please clarify why you are voting Boozahol. > [@Meeko](#): > > Alka : > I’m worried about this. I would think it would be easy, for someone to say, look at these two people, but don’t look at me, I’m innocent. I don’t think you are that far away from this here. Sometimes it’s best to hold off a bit before giving your thoughts, to see what reactions develop, as I’ve done above. It’s pro-town to get thoughts on record. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/211 "2009-08-04T16:17:19Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > But Naf’s “me too” vote on me looks much scummier, as far as I’m concerned. Scummy enough for Day 1, anyway. > > **vote NAF** You’re cute. Good vote though. I know I would have voted for me in a similar situation. Not gonna unvote you yet, but it’s a point in your favor. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/212 "2009-08-04T16:51:31Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Missed this on my first read. As I understand it, with normal roleblocker game mechanics the scum would need to block the vig, not the vig’s target, in order to prevent the kill going through. This in response to Freudian Slit’s asking whether we should openly discuss who the vig ought to target (if there is a vig), on account of power scum might be able to block the kill. I’ll just point out that the last 2 (and therefore the only 2) games I’ve watched or played in, there were scum healer/doctors. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/213 "2009-08-04T16:55:12Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Missed this on my first read. As I understand it, with normal roleblocker game mechanics the scum would need to block the vig, not the vig’s target, in order to prevent the kill going through. Really? I’m pretty sure I have played games where it’s the other way. Someone has the power to protect any one player in the night. Then again, I think that works the other way (it’s Town power role protecting another Townie from Scum, not scum blocking a power role), so I think you’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/214 "2009-08-04T17:01:08Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Now, countering that, is the idea that I’m pretty on board with \*\*Tom’\*\*s ideas–when I saw “Weird Wild West” I thought, “awesome, mafia that might be based on Deadlands”. Is this the same Deadlands Mythos as the CCG of the same name? [Wow, There have been a lot of Failed CCGs, haven’t there?!] > [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Meeko, would you please explain why exactly you are voting for Boozy? And to **Alka** as well::: For a first day vote, and going on what I have seen Boozy do, or rather not do, \*\*I am inclined to think that he is another lose cannon in this game. Speaking as the lose cannon that I am, I can respect his play. If only I’m not in the same game. \*\* And yes, there is a compliment in there. I would like to see Tom Scud’s situation develop some more, but again, for right now, as a first day vote, I am comfortable with my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/215 "2009-08-04T17:02:19Z")
**NETA** LOOSE Cannon :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/216 "2009-08-04T17:35:30Z")
So you’re voting for him because you think he plays in a similar manner to you. I’ll ask a different question then. How does your vote in any way help us find scum? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/217 "2009-08-04T17:36:23Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I > For a first day vote, and going on what I have seen Boozy do, or rather not do, \*\*I am inclined to think that he is another lose cannon in this game. Speaking as the lose cannon that I am, I can respect his play. If only I’m not in the same game. > \*\* > > And yes, there is a compliment in there. > I would like to see Tom Scud’s situation develop some more, but again, for right now, as a first day vote, I am comfortable with my vote. I’m sorry, I don’t speak incoherent. Can you translate this for me? 😉 I parse this as: For a first Day vote…um..OK, I’m not sure why that qualifier is there we only have first Days on Day 1, so let’s start with “going on what I have seen Boozy do” So, we’ve got, : “Based on what I’ve seen Boozy do, or rather not do” Oh shit, which is it? What he did or what he didn’t do? you said ‘rather’ so let’s start off: Based on what I’ve seen Boozy not do, I’m inclined to think he’s another loose cannon. Which is similar to me, and so therefore you respect it. So, You’re voting for Boozy out of respect because of what he hasn’t done. Got it. Now, if I were talking to anyone else, I’d ask what Boozy did or did not do and how that leads to a conclusion that he is a loose cannon and what being a loose cannon means in the context of this game. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/218 "2009-08-04T17:57:14Z")
I haven’t actually voted anyone yet, but did cast suspicion on Booze and NAF. I realize now that I was sort of misinterpreting the “why” of their votes. When I first saw Tom’s post, I wondered why he thought there were supernatural elements in the game. When Booze and NAF voted, since that was in my mind, I thought they were voting just based on that. I knew he mentioned scum supernatural powers, but I wasn’t really thinking about that. The scum part does make it seem more like an example of PIS, so I can understand Booze’s and NAF’s votes. That being said, I am guessing this is just another one of those statements players jump on the first day since they don’t have much else to go on. His explanation seems reasonable enough and I doubt the scum would have actually brought it up. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/219 "2009-08-04T18:23:48Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > … Vote for the Voter. > > Or > > Vote for the Voter voting the Voter. > **Vote Boozahol** > This game aint big enough for the both of us. [Especially if we are going to have the same tactics.] > > But, then again, It’s just Tuesday, votes may change. So…you’re voting for Boozy…because he’s voting…because that’s what you do. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/220 "2009-08-04T18:36:26Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I’ll just point out that the last 2 (and therefore the only 2) games I’ve watched or played in, there were scum healer/doctors. That’s interesting, scum doctor is quite an unusual role from what I’ve seen. @ **special ed** - Please can you clarify what you think about the Tom wagon? In #168 you say it’s clear why Boozahol voted for Tom, while in #177 you imply it was a silly vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801.md?page=12)