# Weird Wild West Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801 "2009-07-30T19:03:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/561 "2009-08-11T06:03:01Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > Something else that caught my attention: > > D2.521: **pedescribe** consider **Meeko** to be a Third Party. I wonder if there is truth to that. **Meeko** has asked the mod regarding clarification of Town and Scum wincon. This is interesting to me, because if he received no wincon then it stands to reason he is Third Party. Again, I don’t know what anyone’s roles are except my own. In light of what I just posted, I feel I can’t follow through with this argument. > [@](#): > > I haven’t played in many Mafia games, and I’m not sure what value can be gained by lynching a Third Party player. In my previous games, the fate of Third Partyers was left to Scum, once the player was outed as Third Party. I would like to hear anyone’s comments regarding this action. But I would still like to hear anyone’s thoughts regarding dealing with Third Party Players. To lynch, or let scum deal with it? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/562 "2009-08-11T06:05:58Z")
So after some consideration after that post, I feel that it’s probably a good idea to just come out and claim. I’m the town’s Barney Fife. That is to say, I’ve got one bullet in my pocket, and I’m not too good with a gun. _That_ is to say that I’m a One-Shot Vig, with a 25% chance of shooting myself in the foot (not fatal, but obvious to everyone if I fail). My role is described as ‘Gunman’. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/563 "2009-08-11T06:07:27Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I did not receive a wincon in my initial PM. After an exchange with Mahaloth, I got one. Well, I was told I was pro-Town. No winning condition was told. Same here. I wonder if **Mahaloth** forgot, or just determined that giving out wincons weren’t necessary. The fact that I didn’t receive a wincon escaped me until now. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/564 "2009-08-11T06:09:27Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > So after some consideration after that post, I feel that it’s probably a good idea to just come out and claim. I’m the town’s Barney Fife. That is to say, I’ve got one bullet in my pocket, and I’m not too good with a gun. _That_ is to say that I’m a One-Shot Vig, with a 25% chance of shooting myself in the foot (not fatal, but obvious to everyone if I fail). > > My role is described as ‘Gunman’. Well, that’s two (three, if you count **Meeko** ) roles claimed. And I will verify your statement by claiming mine: I am the Wimpy Sheriff. Last night I investigated you and found out who you were. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/565 "2009-08-11T06:12:15Z")
Man, I’m popular. Both you and NAF suspicious of me. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/566 "2009-08-11T06:26:39Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Man, I’m popular. Both you and NAF suspicious of me. I know! There are more people I wanted to investigate, but you got the luck of the draw! I wonder if it’s too soon to call for a mason claim… ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/567 "2009-08-11T06:28:47Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > I wonder if it’s too soon to call for a mason claim… Way, way too early. Masons should keep their heads down until forced to, either by only having two left, or by a lynch. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/568 "2009-08-11T06:37:59Z")
It’s that I feel we’ve done Town a disservice, giving scum three roles to zero in on. But I’m not going to push this issue. I’ll take my chances at surviving toNight. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/569 "2009-08-11T11:55:44Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > He thinks it indicates a scummy pattern, and I think he’s full of shit. So much for keeping insults out of the game. ☹ As for win cons, I didn’t get one either. So far, those claiming town have said they didn’t get a win con. Interesting that \*\*pedescribe \*\*did though. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/570 "2009-08-11T12:20:13Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > In light of what I just posted, I feel I can’t follow through with this argument. > > But I would still like to hear anyone’s thoughts regarding dealing with Third Party Players. To lynch, or let scum deal with it? \ It is very nearly _always_ better to try to force the killing of Third-Party actors onto the Scum if possible (or, optimally, onto a Vigilante). In the simplest sense, we have X number of mislynches left, where a mislynch is defined as the lynching of any player other than Scum. If we lynch a Third-Party player, we’re one mislynch down, one Day closer to losing the game. The Scum generally have as much to fear from a Third-Party player as anyone. In my very first game, I was Scum, and it was known that there was a win-stealing Serial Killer among us, and by midgame, the Scum were focused on finding and killing the SK at the exclusion of all else. That was a good thing for the Town. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/571 "2009-08-11T12:27:02Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > As for win cons, I didn’t get one either. So far, those claiming town have said they didn’t get a win con.\*\* Interesting that \*\*pedescribe **did though.** Snipped. Bolding added. \*\* This has been my arguement all along. \*\* Is this still a handshake at this point, or is a slip from Pede? All I know, is that Pede said he would not handshake. He is finding excuses after the fact to back up his reasons for not handshaking, as such. If we can’t call it a dodge, what then can we call it? * * * It would seem we are moving forward on confirmations with out handshaking. It would seem further, that we have people Claiming already, Power Roles no less. \*\*I am not sure if this is wise, but, if it is true, I can’t unring the bell. \*\* But here is something else I wonder about: \*\* Devil’s Advocate hat on. \*\* \*\* Hypothetical Hat on. \*\* * * * ## \*\* If I were Mahaloth, would I keep the Role for Scum the same? \*\* I have never, ever, been scum in a game. I would not know what their roles look like. However, I am led to believe, that they would have a similar enough syntax to a Town role. e.g. You are Crimson Thorn, you X Y and Z. You X the little town you came across and want them to Y and Z as soon as they can Smurf. [Smurf comes after Z, you knew that, right?] But, again, This is pure Meeko Brand thinking now. YMMV. If Scum Claims are the same, can we REVERSE handshake? Zeriel and I could confirm each other, not based on what is there, but what is NOT there. That is to say, I ask for the 19th word in the second line, close to a 9 letter word. I have yet to get any positive response to this. But, if town role text was mixed, this would be expected. This would actually prove Town-ness. If Z had the EXACT same role that I had, the chances are that we would probably both be Scum, and not town. \*\* I hope that at least one of you guys understand what I mean here. \*\* Questions before Votes, please. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/572 "2009-08-11T12:27:53Z")
A few other things: _What the hell_ on all the role claims? Seriously, _what the hell?_ And **cucuy** , why would you claim at #564 and then say that claiming was a disservice four posts later? If it was a disservice, why did you do it? Mass claim: well, I _was_ going to say, when I initially read NAF’s question, that we should not mass claim. I was going to say that mass claiming has no benefit right now, and tremendous downside. But now we have three hard claims, and a few soft-ish claims (notably, Zeriel has basically claimed vanilla). We’re halfway there already, for crying out loud. Ugh. As far as handshakes, wincon analysis, and the like: knock yourselves out, if you want to. Trying to puzzle out and parse variant wincons, PM phrasings, and the like has screwed me over for the last time. I’m going back to yesterDay and re-reading with the new information about Freudian and Special Ed in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/573 "2009-08-11T12:31:33Z")
Okay, so it seems like a lot of people are saying they don’t have a win condition. If you don’t have a win condition, please be quiet about it–since it seems like town power roles don’t have an express one. Since no one seems interested in the possibility of a vanilla handshake, I’ll post my vanilla win condition for reference: “You want the Crimson Thorns gone!” ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/574 "2009-08-11T12:44:29Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Okay, so it seems like a lot of people are saying they don’t have a win condition. If you don’t have a win condition, please be quiet about it–since it seems like town power roles don’t have an express one. Well, I guess Scum can deduce where I am on this. :smack: Z, should we ask Mahaloth [About Wincons] at this point, or just let this play out? ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/575 "2009-08-11T12:44:57Z")
\*\*pedescribe \*\*post analysis Day 1: #145: Comment on whether a Vig should kill at Night. #146: Possibles on list of roles in games. #181: Comment to Meeko on posting style #182: Thoughts on current voting. Is not happy with votes for Alk, can get behind votes for Tom Scud, thinks votes for Boozy are lame. #219: Comment on Meeko voting for Boozy #222: fluff #417: fluff #420: Response to Meeko. Comment on player motivation and why he made his comment about boozy. Comments on players not understanding Meeko. Three roles suggest in #146 are ones he had though of for his game. #425: fluff #426: FS post analysis. Considers it enough to vote FS. Day 2: #511: Question to Meeko about Crimson Thorns. #521: Says PM has win con that all Crimson Thorns are dead. Claims Meeko is CT or 3rd Party. #526: Comment to NAF1138 about town power roles having different win con #532: Comment that role pms are not standard, which is good as it could break game. #551: Responses to Meeko. Comment on voting and explanations, 3rd parties, #552: Refuses to handshake as it violates spirit of game. Not a lot stands out from Day 1, in fact only three posts seem game related and the rest are fluff or style/poster related. Looking at it, #182 is only looking at the current three people being voted on and which one he would be happiest voting on. His reason for doing a post by post on Freudian Slit was because she was the vote leader. No further mention of Tom Scud, despite pedescribe being happiest to vote for him earlier on. Second Day, well there is outright statement that he has a win con puzzles me, because the rest of his posts are justification as to why we should not call him on it and as to why the PMs aren’t standard. Being honest, I think handshaking is against the spirit of it as well. IMHO: slightly scummy looking, Day 1, FS was easily the vote leader and this just further confirmed her as the first day’s lynch victim. See AllWalker’s comment straight after. On the second day, not sure, but I think we are all being played for suckers with role PMs. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/576 "2009-08-11T13:24:24Z")
\*\*What is CT ? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/577 "2009-08-11T13:27:41Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\*What is CT ? \*\* Crimson Thorn ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/578 "2009-08-11T13:30:47Z")
This is just bizarre. Why the hell would you all role claim when a) your necks are not on the line, and b) there was no time to discuss whether it was a good idea beforehand? If nothing else, the discussion might have added a few data points to the pool, gauging peoples’ responses to it. Now we are in a kind of limbo where some people have claimed and others have not. Dammit, guys. What the hell? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/579 "2009-08-11T13:56:33Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > This is just bizarre. > > Why the hell would you all role claim when a) your necks are not on the line, and b) there was no time to discuss whether it was a good idea beforehand? If nothing else, the discussion might have added a few data points to the pool, gauging peoples’ responses to it. Now we are in a kind of limbo where some people have claimed and others have not. > > Dammit, guys. What the hell? AllWalker, further bizarre, We both agree on something here. :eek: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/580 "2009-08-11T14:07:30Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > So much for keeping insults out of the game. ☹ Sorry, Cat. I do hope you know it’s not a personal insult an has no reflection on my feelings towards you as a person, just as a player in this game. I will tone down my asshole tendencies.☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801.md?page=30)