# Weird Wild West Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801 "2009-07-30T19:03:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/821 "2009-08-19T01:57:54Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > I don’t buy this. > > If this were a straightforward, powerless-Scum game, **story** would have denied the charges, and only if it seemed inevitable admitted to being Scum. And even then, only if revealing this info is worth sacrificing a Scum for. > > Unless this is a bluff. > > Personally I am worried that lynching story will have some built-in trap for Town. Based on this, I would advise Town that, since a lot of these “vengence” type powers target those who vote for them, that a minimal number of people vote for story toDay. In fact, theoretically Town could lynch story with one vote if no one else votes at all, two in the case that story votes in self defence. I know I know, having only 1 vote on the board a) costs us info and b) runs the risk of a last minute vote hijack, but are these considerations relevant toDay? We have a confessed CT so the voting should be pretty uniform, and hijacking the vote would be incredibly Scummy. That’s a fair point. I am not comfortable leaving us open to a hijack–I’d say we need at least 4, possibly 5 Story voters. And I have no problem risking my neck, since I already softclaimed vanilla anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/822 "2009-08-19T02:01:13Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Huh, well, Story got shot but story ain’t dead. > \*\* > vote storyteller\*\* Um…what? No public announcement? No interlude? Weird…that’s different than most DK’s I know. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/823 "2009-08-19T02:03:33Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > Sounds like a Scotsman. You should have no proctection left, unless there is a Governor scum role with ability to protect you. Again, this is all conjecture, I have no more PIS on you than what I’ve posted. A Governor scum is usually overpowered by itself, a Governor and Scotsman scum would be waaaay unbalanced. I’m pretty sure we can discount that possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/824 "2009-08-19T02:14:33Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > Wow, claims galore. > > On **Storyteller** : in _Undying War_ town was warned about a terrorist who would blow up when lynched. He ended up voting a confirmed mason and town happily lynched him for it. He blew up the mason and myself :(. So yeah, let’s be careful here. Thoughts on bombing: I’m 100% sure that story is scum of some stripe at this point. No sane townie would claim scum (I’ve run the numbers), and story is not insane. So that means we have to kill him at some point. There’s really no point in waiting. NAF tried to shoot him and failed, meaning he might only be vulnerable to the lynch. Or he might be vulnerable now, now that NAF shot him. He can’t be invulnerable, that’d be unfair. And if he is a bomb…well, we’ll have to take the blow sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/825 "2009-08-19T02:22:05Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Also, would people stop listening to anything Story has to say? Please? Just put him on ignore until he is killed or something. He is outed scum, he admits to it. Everything else he might have to say is smoke and mirrors. On the one hand, NAF is right. I remember when I got outed as a wolf Day 2 and tried to sow confusion. We totally shouldn’t listen. And yet… > [@storyteller0910](#): > > You know, I think you’re the third-party actor. Multiple day kills? AND the powers to self-protect and stop a lynch, which makes you nearly unkillable, AND you can track? > > This is a collection of powers that would be wildly imbalanced to give to a pro-Town actor (especially in a game with another claimed pseudo-tracker, another claimed Detective, another claimed Vig, and a claimed Doctor), but would be tremendously useful to a third-party player. > > I note that if NAF is not lying about his powers, he can be lynched toDay. He has already used a power toDay, and thus cannot use another (ie, cannot stop himself from being lynched). > > As I strongly suspect him to be a win-stealing third-party, I will > > **vote NAF** > > Remember, **Boozy** can always shoot me toNight. If he’s not lying, I mean. This is very persuasive. I’m 10 layers of skeptical right now, since this is coming from the mouth of a claimed scum. But–_if_ we get more solid evidence of a 3rd party and _if_ we have evidence that he or she can steal the win, and _if_ I have other suspicions of NAF…we might want to reconsider dismissing the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/826 "2009-08-19T02:29:50Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > And then, of all things, Storyteller goes and pulls “I am scum”, and hardly anyone bats an eyelash at it. Those that do, do so after the “Is he a Jester” question is raised, **AND STILL VOTE FOR HIM.** :eek:😕:eek:😕 > \*\* > Why would Story say he is Scum now? Can we just entertain that for two seconds?\*\* There are only three reasons story would claim scum: a) He’s scum, and he thinks he has no way of getting around cucuy’s claim, or b) He’s scum who benefits from being lynched c) He’s some sort of third party who benefits from being lynched. There is no reason for a townie to claim scum. I’d know. I’ve toyed with the idea. If he is an a or b, we’ll have to lynch him at some point. Clearly. I mean, we could wait for Boozy on the chance that he’s a B, but NAF already failed (he claims), and I don’t want to wait, since we don’t know Story’s power–maybe he wants us to wait so he can pull off some oneshot power or something. It’s a reasonable possibility. As for c, no self-respecting mod would put in a win-stealing jester-type role without telling any of the players. So we can safely discount that. Which means in the worst case scenario, Story’s lynch does nothing but deprive us of a lynch–we don’t even lose a townie. And given that leaving him alive runs the risk of him messing with our heads/unleashing a oneshot power, I think it’s more than worth the risk to lynch him now. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/827 "2009-08-19T02:31:30Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > So, and I saw this upthread also : As long as we are not at LYLO [And again, I do **not** think that we are.] Anyone can go “ **Hurr, I can has power? X is scum! Kthxbye** ” and have people follow him? Why does NOT being at LYLO equate to we will mindlessly follow somone? Because if he’s lying, we lynch him toMorrow. One town for one scum is a good trade. And if he’s lying and town…well, he actively hurt his own team, that’s his fault, not ours. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/828 "2009-08-19T02:32:58Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > So, If I understand your line of reasoning, it goes something like this “We think you might be Scum, Cucuy, but, before we do what we know we must do, we are going to go ahead and kill off one of our own. Then we will kill you. No hard feelings there, right?” Missed this part. Yes, that is exactly the line of reasoning. What’s wrong with it? Do you think one town for one scum is a bad trade? Do you think storyteller is town despite his scum claim? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/829 "2009-08-19T02:52:58Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Um…what? No public announcement? No interlude? Weird…that’s different than most DK’s I know. I know. And on top of that the mod has told me that I am not allowed to quote the PMs in the exchange. So I get a special rule made for me too. Tons of fun. I wonder if Maha will confirm that I am not allowed to quote the PMs I sent him today? Probably not, but it can’t hurt to ask. **Modly one, can you confirm the above?** > [@pedescribe](#): > > Thoughts on bombing: I’m 100% sure that story is scum of some stripe at this point. No sane townie would claim scum (I’ve run the numbers), and story is not insane. So that means we have to kill him at some point. There’s really no point in waiting. NAF tried to shoot him and failed, meaning he might only be vulnerable to the lynch. Or he might be vulnerable now, now that NAF shot him. He can’t be invulnerable, that’d be unfair. And if he is a bomb…well, we’ll have to take the blow sooner or later. This is my thinking. I doubt he is a Jester, I highly suspect he is a scum scotsman and is now vulnerable to lynching which he would not have been before (hence the claim, he was trying to get us to mislynch). That said, if he is a bomb, better he go off now than at endgame. Also, I want to try to answer Meeko because I actually do think there is a good mafia player in there, he is just coming at the game from the wrong headspace. > [@Meeko](#): > > **I don’t get this at all. > \*\* > EVERYONE in this game is giving me mixed messages, and then gets on me for being hard to understand. (Even when I am not.) > \*\* > DO WE HAVE ANY, A N Y PROOF that Cucy is a power role? Or Town, for that matter?** We have no proof. At the moment we need no proof. If Cucuy is lying and story is not scum (highly improbable, but what the heck let’s entertain the hypothetical), he just gave town a gift. On the heels of a scum lynch town can afford to mislynch once and then we would know that Cucuy was scum. A scum for town trade in this situation is a net gain for town. I don’t remember the exact math but I think each scum is worth something like 3 townies in terms of lynches. It’s a good deal for town unless we are at lylo. That’s all you really need to know at this point about the cop claim, the odds and the favorability of the trade. That’s why the experienced players all jumped on it. > [@](#): > > But, ok, we will follow him anyway. And very quickly too. Too quickly. > > And then, of all things, Storyteller goes and pulls “I am scum”, and hardly anyone bats an eyelash at it. Those that do, do so after the “Is he a Jester” question is raised, **AND STILL VOTE FOR HIM.** :eek:😕:eek:😕 > \*\* > Why would Story say he is Scum now? Can we just entertain that for two seconds?\*\* We can and we should entertain they why would story claim question. I entertained it and decided to try to Day kill him because I thought I might be able to avert a bomb disaster. Now it doesn’t matter if you belive me about my claim or not, Story needs to be lynched under any circumstances. If he is a game ending jester…well it’s still early in the game and I will know not to play in any of this mods games in the future. Lesson learned. If he is any other kind of jester or if he is a scotsman, or a bomb, or even town he needs to be lynched toDay. There isn’t really any other option that town has that doesn’t hurt town more in the long run. > [@](#): > > I do not understand any of this game, as it is being played right now. I mean, Everyone and their brother has told me that you are NEVER confirmed until you are dead. Everyone and their Brother is lining up to vote Story. I don’t follow. A Story lynch answer some important questions about the fundamentals of the game. Being confirmed has nothing to do with it. Mafia is a game of uncertainty and calculated risks. Only making moves you are certain of is a good way to lose. > [@](#): > > Hell, can I just make up a claim, and have you guys all voting X Y or Z just out of the blue, for shits and giggles? > \*\* > I do not get this, at all. \*\* You can, and if you do you will almost certainly get caught and lynched. If you did it for no reason you will likely not be allowed to play again. There is a certain amount of being a good sport that is involved in playing these games. We have to trust that no one is going to be an outright asshole. (not that you would actually do that, I’m just saying) > [@](#): > > The amount of ““Weak”” roles, if they are as reported, also is a bit off, I mean, why so many roles, that are so weak, – UNLESS they are split up among mulitple factions? Lots of reasons. We have no reason to believe that there aren’t multiple factions. What was the town win condition again? (sorry, I didn’t get one and I don’t remember it) But beyond multiple factions it could just be game balance. When I create games I generally try to have a few full power roles in the game as possible. It allows for more flexible balancing and I believe that weak roles are actually more fun to play then full power roles. > [@](#): > > I strongly believe that more than half of the game is not thinking for themselves here. I think it’s far too early in the Day to say that. snip > [@](#): > > My FOS are on the " Me Too " players. They have their script already and hence, were able to get in line quickly. With a speed that Town would not have. Fair enough. That’s not a bad line of reasoning. > [@](#): > > \*\*I have no information on third parties, but, given how… UTTERLY SIDEWAYS this game is, I can not conceive of this game NOT having a third party currently. \*\* > > I know thats a double negative, but, I couldn’t care less. Most games have third parties in them. Most of the time it’s a mistake for town to care until midgame and a couple of lynched scum. After we lynch story we can go hunting third party players. [quote=“Meeko, post:818, topic:504801”] \*\* In reverse order:\*\* > [@](#): > > So, and I saw this upthread also : As long as we are not at LYLO [And again, I do **not** think that we are.] Anyone can go “ **Hurr, I can has power? X is scum! Kthxbye** ” and have people follow him? Why does NOT being at LYLO equate to we will mindlessly follow somone? Not mindlessly. What you are missing is that a lot of us know the cost benefit of the trade if it turns out the Cucuy is lying. And yes, in the early game it is generally good advice to give claimed power roles the benefit of the doubt. They generally do not make it to endgame if they are lying. (occasionally they do, but that is the exception not the rule) > [@](#): > > So, If I understand your line of reasoning, it goes something like this “We think you might be Scum, Cucuy, but, before we do what we know we must do, we are going to go ahead and kill off one of our own. Then we will kill you. No hard feelings there, right?” This is backtracking in your thinking it through abilities. It’s stuff like this that makes me wonder if you aren’t actually scum and playing up some stuff. > [@](#): > > I mean, if Cucuy is scum, why are we doing what he wants us to do in voting Stoy? Either Cucuy is Scum, or he isnt. If he is, we need to vote him today, and not Story. [Do I really have this, that wrong?] Yup. We need to vote story either way. See above. > [@](#): > > Is Cucuy lying? Probably. Then agian, half of you guys say I lied in LOST. [I didn’t] So, as far as the game and it’s players treat “Lying” I am going to go ahead and say that I bet everyone in ““lying”” in the terms that MAFIA defines it. [Not my personal definition, mind you.] Three questions. 1)What is the “mafia definition” of lying? 2)What is your definition? 3)Why must Cucuy be lying? > [@](#): > > To be clear, **There is definite lying going on.** There is just way too much going on not to be. Then again, When we have people who pose as town, and people who are claiming to be Scum 2 OOG Days early… Again, why must there be lying going on? I agree that there is probably some lying going on, but why must it be so? Also, as to the question you asked in the Night that I keep forgetting to answer. Skimming is considered a scum tell because once upon a time Storyteller realised that scum don’t need to pay attention to the game the way that town do. So skimming is something scum will do by reflex. Unfortunately, town is often lazy and skims long posts. I bet not more than half the players in the game will read this whole post, it’s the way of the world. People are lazy. Skimming is a good scum tell if you know what kind of skimming you are looking for, but generally it’s a null tell because it isn’t pro scum, it is simply anti town. And rule number 1 of mafia is that every townie will do something VERY anti town at some point in the game, generally they will do multiple somethings that are anti town. Townies rarely do things that are pro scum though. Pro scum and anti town are not the same thing, and learning to consistantly tell the difference is one of the greatest challenges in playing mafia. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/830 "2009-08-19T02:56:18Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > On the one hand, NAF is right. I remember when I got outed as a wolf Day 2 and tried to sow confusion. We totally shouldn’t listen. And yet… > > This is very persuasive. I’m 10 layers of skeptical right now, since this is coming from the mouth of a claimed scum. But–_if_ we get more solid evidence of a 3rd party and _if_ we have evidence that he or she can steal the win, and _if_ I have other suspicions of NAF…we might want to reconsider dismissing the idea. I can’t really fight against the third party thing. I’m not, I am town. I have it verified in a PM from the mod (which I may or may not be allowed to quote, I am not totally sure.) I didn’t get a win condition, like several other claimed town power roles. I was the first to mention it (I think). If it makes you feel any better, I am powerful enough (and scum now know it) that it is highly unlikely I will make it to endgame. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/831 "2009-08-19T03:07:33Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910;11458648 Remember, **Boozy** can always shoot me toNight. If he’s not lying, I mean.[/QUOTE] Come on, story. Even when I’ve been scum, I’ve never lied in these games. But you, my friend, are no good, here. \*\* vote: storyteller \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/832 "2009-08-19T03:10:03Z")
If people are more comfortable with it, by the way, I’m happy to change my vote to no-lynch and shoot story toNight, (remember, there is a 25% chance I’ll shoot myself in the foot. But you’ll know it Tomorrow, and we can lynch him then) if that puts him out of Jester status ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/833 "2009-08-19T03:16:36Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\* > In reverse order:\*\* > > No. Never meant to imply that I think that heaven forbid, on our third day (right?) we are at LYLO. But, hey, If I can seperate that last line, I do see a hint of “There is a mafia player in meeko yet” in there, and I will take it as the compliment it wants to be. Just a thought on LYLO: we’re really only on our second day, in terms of game balancing: we didn’t lose a townie last night, and did lose a scum player, which should effectively set us back a day in terms of the game. If lynching a guaranteed scum/PFK kills us, here on Day Three with over 20 players, we can all just mark it off on on our game calenders as an unfair game. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/834 "2009-08-19T04:35:50Z")
I have a theory. Maybe **story** is immune to vig kill. It would make sense. Claimed Scum, but with a mysterious edge to it. We allegedly waste a DK on him, story says “woops how did that happen? i have extra powerz.”. It’s possible he is baiting us into wasting another shot on him. I say we lynch, but we keep important roles out of the vote on story. My vote stands. **Boozy** , a 1 shot vig (or is that a 0.75 shot vig?) is useful - unvote, and only vote for story if Town needs you to. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/835 "2009-08-19T05:12:32Z")
AS for why, acknowledging that there’s probably a reason Story wants to be lynched, I am still voting for him: If Story is a bomber or whatever with vengeance, I’m claimed vanilla. It will not cause town terrible amounts of consternation if I die when a scum dies too If there is a win-stealing Jester in a closed game, the mod is a Gastard and I can safely ignore lynching them because I don’t care about their “win”. If Story is a recruiting Jester, Story would have already subbed out, since he hates recruitment mechanics like Bill Clinton hates not getting blowjobs. So that’s where I stand on it. I don’t want to see power roles voting for Story unless they have to, personally, on the off chance he’s got some kinda vengeance power. I don’t necessarily have any thoughts on whether or not he’s lying about third parties. Meeko, the typical strategy is to believe claimed investigators until they’re proven wrong or counterclaimed, or until the odds work out that the claimed group they’re building is worth more if truly confirmed by the investigator’s death reveal. In particular, even though cucey has claimed he’s got a chance of wrong investigatory results, if he gets us to lynch a townie claiming that he investigated them as scum we should kill him anyway to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/836 "2009-08-19T09:11:47Z")
Just so people know, my ability to access the Internet is going to be reduced for a week starting this afternoon. My fiancee is coming across the North Sea, but only for a week. This means that not only will I have someone else to take time away from surfing, but there will be times when _she_ wants to use _my_ computer. I’ll still be paying attention, but maybe not as assiduously as I would like. On Cucuy : I’m still uneasy that he cannot tell us whether he gets false results or no results on a failure; if Mahaloth won’t tell him then fine, but we’ll need to be aware of the possibility that any given result could be false when assessing his reports and deciding whether to act on them. It’s probable that the failure chance reflects the possibility of the message going astray, but I’d still like to _know_. On Storyteller. Given that, in past games, Storyteller has grumped about Townies-who-lie, I don’t believe he would have claimed CT if he were Town aligned. So he’s not. Either he’s a CT, or a third party player with an agenda, or both. The one thing that worries me, though, is this. If Storyteller is a CT with an agenda, isn’t it possible that Cucuy is also CT, and bussing Storyteller to forward that agenda? If so, lynching Storyteller is playing their game. On the other hand, we can’t afford to have ourselves go paranoid over this, and a CT in the hand needs to be carefully pulled lest we get infected. **Vote Storyteller** If he is a bomb of some kind, my power is weak enough that it can be risked. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/837 "2009-08-19T13:45:38Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Also, I want to try to answer Meeko because I actually do think there is a good mafia player in there, he is just coming at the game from the wrong headspace. > > Also, as to the question you asked in the Night that I keep forgetting to answer. Skimming is considered a scum tell because once upon a time Storyteller realised that scum don’t need to pay attention to the game the way that town do. So skimming is something scum will do by reflex. Unfortunately, town is often lazy and skims long posts. I bet not more than half the players in the game will read this whole post, it’s the way of the world. People are lazy. Skimming is a good scum tell if you know what kind of skimming you are looking for, but generally it’s a null tell because it isn’t pro scum, it is simply anti town. And rule number 1 of mafia is that every townie will do something VERY anti town at some point in the game, generally they will do multiple somethings that are anti town. Townies rarely do things that are pro scum though. Pro scum and anti town are not the same thing, and learning to consistantly tell the difference is one of the greatest challenges in playing mafia. This thing took on a life of it’s own gang. NAF, please read. Others can read if they want… but, to do my part here [OOG] “Wrong Headspace”. At once, I am not sure I know the full meaning of this word, even though I heard it once said about my ex-girlfriend. [**FTR** , there are people that are more “meeko”, than meeko.] But, at that same time, I am sure I know what it means, and I can relate to it. [I can’t find a definition for it, either.] But, Yes, reading the LOST forbidden thread after I was NK’d in that game, while the game was still going on (This is my third Mafia game, and my first game, Glyph, I was vote switched lynched to end the game.) I was able to see commentary on an active game that I had been in. One user in that the spoiled thread, \*\*understood me perfectly. \*\* He then offered his reason. All of that to say this :: \*\* I have ADD / ADHD \*\* (I keep hearing different reports on if they are the same thing or not, but trust me, there have been very, very, rare times, where I have surprised myself, at how hyperactive I was.) If this gets at the wrong “headspace” you talk about NAF, we can end here. But, I could keep going. I have a Habit of Overthinking things. I have a habit of getting overwhelmed, and worrying about things that don’t need to be worried about. Case in point: Sudoku. I do have a point here, and It is the most recent instance I have, outside of Mafia. Hopefully you will allow me here, and hopefully, a few of you play sudoku, so that my example is not as obtuse. On easy puzzles, and a few puzzles of the next difficulty higher, I have noticed something annoying in my play. I will conclude that a given space MUST hold a specific number. That would be the great thing that it needs to be, if it wasn’t a given. Yes. I spend time in sudoku concluding numbers that were alreaddy given to me. But, FWIW, I know for a fact that they weren’t lying to me. :rolleyes: I get caught up in trying to solve something, and I go all out on it. I don’t stop to ask if I really need to solve it, or if indeed, it’s not already solved. [Slightly different things.] In Mafia now, I routinely internally ask myself why X can, or can’t happen in this game. This gets at my asking the questions (In this exact game, IIRC) about how Scum come to find out who they are Scum with, AND why I felt as if I was PISing even though I KNOW I am Town. It is hard to elaborate further. But, to put different words on it : I get waist deep in an idea, and I have to pull myself out of it, only after thinking it through. In LOST, for example, I actually had to really think about why the game NK’d Chronos. IIRC, he was a power Role, and it was more or less assumed that everyone else was vanilla. I honestly thought it didn’t matter to Scum, as townie is townie is townie, Scum only win with reduced townie… why not just pick a townie at (more or less) random? It actually took me quite a bit longer to conclude, for myself, that yes, offing a Power Town is THAT much better than a vanilla town. Then again, I was a one shot vig in that game, and I used my power night one. I was CERTAIN that I would die that night\*. I wasn’t but, I did have the game thinking that I had more bullets. I guess in my mind, I assumed that Scum somehow knew more than they did. I guess, I assumed that in terms of game math, only the **quantity** mattered, not the **quality**. \*And now that I write it out, my entire SNAFU with my one-shot vig also gets at my headspace (I would guess). LOST gave powers to characters that more or less matched their TV show counterparts. I claimed as Sawyer, on Day 1 no less, and I figured that my name alone, in the middle of the discussion that Name WOULD equate to relative power role, would indicate me as packing heat. My Claim, thankfully for town, got 5 or so votes off of me first day (Some things have yet to change.) But, I felt that it came at a cost. KNOWING that I was going to die that night, having told the game that I was Sawyer, and lo and behold, I have a gun ((Ok, the implication was there)) I felt that I had cheated death by the noose, I HAD to use my nightchoice that night, because I did not want to die, not having it being used. I made an educated guess on a sample of the games population, and randomness be damned, I came up with the same name time and time again. And he was town. Anyway. I’m not sure what this has become, but, it is how I think. and FWIW, I think I agree with you NAF, I do have a different headspace on this game. Hopefully, that will be a boon to the game, once I can harness it. /OOG \*\* But, Oh miserable of happy! NAF: You are the one that apparently tried to DK Story?! I’m not trying to be an ass, nor am I trying to skim on puprose. \*\* \*\*But, where on earth did you claim that you Tried to Day Vig Story?! I can’t find it, and I’m not sure I know how far back in the thread to look. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/838 "2009-08-19T13:52:13Z")
NETA: The entire One for One Trade makes perfect sense to me. Especially since we offed a Scum yesterday. I still am not going to vote Story thought, … Just don’t feel good about it. BUT \*\* UNVOTE CUCUY\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/839 "2009-08-19T14:54:12Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > I say we lynch, but we keep important roles out of the vote on story. My vote stands. **Boozy** , a 1 shot vig (or is that a 0.75 shot vig?) is useful - unvote, and only vote for story if Town needs you to. Sounds reasonable \*\* unvote: storyteller \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/840 "2009-08-19T15:24:31Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > I say we lynch, but we keep important roles out of the vote on story. For the record this is basically why I’m keeping my vote on **Joey**. I don’t have any other leads and I think **Story** is going to be a bomb. Just wanted to get my reasons out there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801.md?page=43)