# Weird Wild West Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801 "2009-07-30T19:03:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/841 "2009-08-19T16:23:03Z")
\*\*Vote Count: JoeyP(1): Oredigger Storyteller(4): AllWalker, CatInASuit, Pedescribe, Mhaye\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/842 "2009-08-19T16:31:43Z")
Ok, Story = Jester == Mahaloth is a Gastard. Story = Bomb == Mahaloth is not a Gastard. What determines gastardlyness? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/843 "2009-08-19T16:39:53Z")
Win stealing/game ending Jesters are generally considered to be an unfair game element as it punishes the players, in the harshest way possible, for doing their job correctly and lynching scum. Bombs are generally not considered unfair as there is (almost) always some way of discovering the bomb nature and the punishment to town for doing their job and lynching scum is significantly less harsh. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/844 "2009-08-19T16:40:53Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > \*\*Vote Count: > > JoeyP(1): Oredigger > > Storyteller(4): AllWalker, CatInASuit, Pedescribe, Mhaye\*\* I should have a vote on storyteller too. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/845 "2009-08-19T16:49:37Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I should have a vote on storyteller too. Maybe he’s trying to tell you something NAF. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/846 "2009-08-19T16:53:05Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\*But, where on earth did you claim that you Tried to Day Vig Story?! I can’t find it, and I’m not sure I know how far back in the thread to look. \*\* [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11457767). \*\* Also, my vote for Story is two posts down.\*\* > [@Meeko](#): > > In Mafia now, I routinely internally ask myself why X can, or can’t happen in this game. This gets at my asking the questions (In this exact game, IIRC) about how Scum come to find out who they are Scum with, AND why I felt as if I was PISing even though I KNOW I am Town. BTW I read the whole post Meeko. It has nothing to do with your ADD, I think that might be what annoyes other players, but it’s not my problem. I am only interested in the game having the highest calibre players possible, the personality of those players doesn’t mean much to me. Regarding the bit I snipped which I think gets to the heart of your issue, the only thing I can say is that mafia forces you to make educated guesses in order to limit the possibilities of the game. You can’t wait until you are certain because certainty in this game only comes with death, but not making any leaps leaves you not taking any actions and then the other team or other players on your team end up running the game. You play the odds, improve your chances, make an edjucated guess and leap hoping you didn’t miss anything. If you wait until someone is 100% confirmed, if you never trust anyone, you are as doomed as if you always trust certain players or if you don’t attempt to confirm anyone. Deal with the uncertainty, manage it and move forward. It’s the only way to play. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/847 "2009-08-19T16:55:32Z")
\*\*Vote Count: JoeyP(1): Oredigger Storyteller(5): AllWalker, CatInASuit, Pedescribe, Mhaye, NAF\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/848 "2009-08-19T17:08:05Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Huh, well, Story got shot but story ain’t dead. Ok. I see it now. Yeah, My problem is, I get so tied up in what I am doing, (This was around the time that I Voted Cucuy and fossed the others based on the speed of their votes), that I don’t focus on anything else, very truly, it is almost as if I don’t see other things. ## But, yeah, wow, if we can’t Day vig story, then something, non linear is here. [That is, he is beyond regular scum, or regular town.] \*\* Does this exclude story from being Town, even if he claims Scum?\*\* (Yes, a boneheaded move, but, I’m not going to rule any angle out here. You guys should know me better than that, at least.) **How exactly does a Bomb work? What are the variants of a bomb? How would a bomb work with our color?** [[It could be anything that Ma would shoe-horn in, sure, but if we can piece together how it works in our color, we might could glean other roles.]] Based on the context, I would bet that Allwalker’s point should be taken, we do not need power roles voting on Story, if indeed he takes out a voter with him. That being said, if I can move closer to thinking that Story is scum, than I am now, I have no reservations voting for him. I am just, still not at a place where I can officially vote for him. Given that we have some time left in the day, I don’t think this is that anti-town. I want to make sure I know, as best as we can know, what my vote means for the game, and for me, and my powers, if I have any. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/849 "2009-08-19T17:13:36Z")
I just realized that a few of my lines there work off implications from the previous line. 1. I meant to state that if Story indeed took a Vig bullet, does that mean he can not be town? Could we **totally disregard ANY claim that story makes** , and be assured that he is indeed not town, based on what NAF tells us? 2.by “my vote” above, I simply meant, “my vote on story”. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/850 "2009-08-19T18:05:16Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > **How exactly does a Bomb work? What are the variants of a bomb? How would a bomb work with our color?** [[It could be anything that Ma would shoe-horn in, sure, but if we can piece together how it works in our color, we might could glean other roles. Generally speaking, a bomb is a role that can kill someone upon the player’s death. A revenge kill. Sometime, the targets are restricted. But there aren’t too many variations on the role. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/851 "2009-08-19T18:34:08Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > 1. I meant to state that if Story indeed took a Vig bullet, does that mean he can not be town? Could we **totally disregard ANY claim that story makes** , and be assured that he is indeed not town, based on what NAF tells us? Yes, but you could have done that once **Story** admitted being scum. I’ve only seen town do it once and it was a bad idea. On the other hand I think you should treat **NAF** like the rest of us unconfirmed power roles that is you shouldn’t just believe anything he says. It is still possible that he is third party which is why he role is so different from the other claimed roles just like it is still possible that I’m a role blocker that is not pro town (or I have a friend who is a scum role blocker who doesn’t block town power roles). ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/852 "2009-08-19T19:16:03Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > … just like it is still possible that I’m a role blocker that is not pro town (or I have a friend who is a scum role blocker who doesn’t block town power roles). Which reminds me that who don’t know if prostitute **MentalGuy** actually was a role blocker - at least no one claimed to have been slept with, unless you both slept with **Allwalker** Night One. Sluts ;). **Mahaloth, what kind of powers does a Prostitute have? Also do you refuse to answer the other questions asked?** **Nanook** also claims targeting some one reveals him. **Storyteller** , would you humor us to confirm you got a protected message Night One? Regarding Nanook’s claim, he has some really convoluted reasons to do it. First for some context (bolding mine): > [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Cucuy why the heck did you claim? I assume Wimpy Sherriff is some sort of detective type role, correct me if I’m wrong, so I really don’t understand why you would do that. NAF’s I can understand, he kinda already outted himself with the questions and comments he made. And Boozy’s role is weak, so that’s a big meh. But yours? Bah. **Anyone else with a power role needs to keep their damn mouth shut unless their about to be lynched.** And then his claim Today: > [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > I’m going to claim now. Some people are going to think I’m nuts for doing so, but I’m pretty sure this is the second time that I’ve been in this situation, where I’m 99% sure the scum know exactly who and what I am, and therefore there is no reason for me not to. > > I’m the Town Doctor. There are two reasons I’m sure the scum know who I am. For one, when I protect someone, they get a PM saying they were protected. This is relevent because I protected Storyteller on Night 1. Since he has since admitted to being scum, they clearly know that a Doc exists. That in and of itself is not enough of a reason to claim of course, since knowing a Doc exists and knowing who the Doc is is not the same thing. But there was this post that caught my eye. > > There are a few other occasions where Oredigger talks about there being a Doctor in the game. By itself, nothing special. But the confidence level he displays, combined with the fact that we know now that the Scum know for certain about the existance of a Doctor, it twinged me. Not enough to say anything before this, since I could have been wrong and there’s no reason to out myself just in case I was. > > Long story short, I believe Oredigger is lying and therefore scum. I think he made up the bit about blocking Joey last Night in an attempt to turn a bad situation for the scum into a mislynch. He would be able to claim plausible deniability when Joey came up Town by saying something like, I guess I was wrong about my block being the reason for no NK, must have been a Doc block instead. > > However, I’m not willing to lay down a vote yet. I want to hear from Joey first. As for Story, this seems like the perfect time for a one shot Vig to use his bullet, given the possibilty of a recruitment or bomb with Story’s death. -the first one is solid: he protected **Storyteller** , he got a message telling him and thus scum know there is a doctor. -Oredigger must be scum because Nanook self-protected (did you get a message you successfully protected yourself?) also seems certain there is a doctor - although he doesn’t mention the doctor possibly blocking the kill. -Since Oredigger is certain there is a doctor, it _must_ be Nanook. I don’t see how unless you forgot to mention the protect message is something like ‘Hi, I’m Nanook the Doctor protecting you Tonight’? -If JoeyP confirms Oredigger he might not be scum, but there are _only four days left_ in the Day so no time to waste waiting for that. **Nanook** : why are you so certain scum knew you were the doctor? Why claim so recklessly against you’re own advice? ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/853 "2009-08-19T19:17:40Z")
NETA: there is a snip in the second quote, but I forgot to put in the \. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/854 "2009-08-19T19:32:00Z")
Checking myself, Oredigger _does_ mention doctors a lot. I do get the impression he more is fishing for the doctor than that he already knows who it is though. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many claims for so little reason. I guess we don’t have a doc outed so maybe there is hope that some are still in hiding. Since we’ve figured out the lack of a wincon is what separates the vanillas from the power roles I think we can quite worrying about handshakes and matching PMs. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > I am your humble town Slut, basically I am the town’s role blocker. Last night I slept with Allwalker and he had “an oddly wonderful night”. I appreciate him keeping quiet about it but at least I can be confirmed, unless he is scum. > > So now that we’ve revealed another power role and most of us have got to be out of the closet at this time what are we going to do? Not specifically doctor, but he does seem to suggest a mass claim (to get the doctor in the open?). > [@Oredigger77](#): > > I agree with this completely, I am nervous about there being four power roles already reviled while we haven’t seen a doctor or similar role, which I think it very likely. It is true that role blockers and equally likely on the scum or town side but there is really nothing I can do besides admit that I was trying to lay low. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > That leaves me with 10 people who are alive and more then likely 4 of them are scum. I think there is probably a town doc but I don’t have a read on who it could be. I think a 40% chance of hitting scum is worth the 10% chance of hitting the doc. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > Sorry, I thought it was obvious. I don’t have any protect power so sleeping with our investigator would do no good. While there is a possibility of a doctor, since I give out a message when i sleep with someone I assume the Doc would as well so if someone were protected the could contradict me. My vote was based on the assumption that one of the main goals of the roleblocker is the stop the kill when the scum have to pick an individual to perform it. Since I know who I blocked and there was no kill it is a pretty easy assumption to the fact that they were the person to carry out the kill last Night. I think that adds to **Joey’s** case considerably. Speculates the doctor leaves a message. Since **JoeyP** got heat Day Two, if I where scum I wouldn’t let him kill with a claimed tracker around. But I guess you could argue since he’s already suspect might as well consider him a loss. Also an odd post: > [@Oredigger77](#): > > It makes sense to me that the person giving it away for free is good while the person charging for it is bad. Considering how many town power roles we have had claim it isn’t too surprising that the scum had a role blocker to even things out. > > As for the whole claim thing if I was going to make up this role why would I choose slut since the groundwork for a prostitute with a hart of gold claim has already been laid. Prostitute who charges obviously scum, but there is groundwork (where? as movie cliché?) for a prostitute with a heart of gold. But even a prostitute with a heart of gold still charges by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/855 "2009-08-19T20:27:55Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > Checking myself, Oredigger _does_ mention doctors a lot. I do get the impression he more is fishing for the doctor than that he already knows who it is though. . Not fishing but it makes/made sense for there to be a doctor in this game and I was making my plans accordingly and wanted the town to at least think about it. > [@Natlaw](#): > > Not specifically doctor, but he does seem to suggest a mass claim (to get the doctor in the open?). . That was most definitely not a suggestion for a mass claim. It was simply asking what the town should do since most of the power roles were revealed. Whether it was trying to confirm the roles or trying to get them to coordinate their power to be used more effectively or the route we’ve seemingly gone which is let us do what ever we want and keep the town informed as necessary didn’t matter but I thought the question should be asked. > [@Natlaw](#): > > Prostitute who charges obviously scum, but there is groundwork (where? as movie cliché?) for a prostitute with a heart of gold. But even a prostitute with a heart of gold still charges by definition. That does seem to be the distinction that **Maholtih** is drawing but I can’t think of any westerns that have sluts in them. But of course the groundwork was laid for a prostitute claim between **Meeko** and **Pede’s** suggestion that the role existed, admittedly on the scum side, and the fact there are good prostitutes in many movies; High Noon, Winchester ’73, El Dorado and Silverado just to name a few. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/856 "2009-08-19T21:26:12Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > **Mahaloth, what kind of powers does a Prostitute have? Also do you refuse to answer the other questions asked?** \*\*Not sure what pressing questions you need answered aside from this one, but I usually ignore the ones I don’t want to answer or put “no comment” as my remark. Mentalguy, who was a Crimson Thorn Prostitute, was a roleblocker. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/857 "2009-08-19T21:42:34Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > **Nanook** : why are you so certain scum knew you were the doctor? Why claim so recklessly against you’re own advice? You call it reckless, I call it the correct play for the information I have. I didn’t get a message about self protecting at first, but I did when I asked. My role PM specifically states that my target will receive a message when I protect them. Once Story admitted to being scum, there was no doubt they were aware of a doctor. Combine it with a no kill Night, with a very good possibility that I was the target, why would I withold information from the Town? I mean, it’s one thing to withhold information that only I know, as in that I was the doctor before Today, but it’s stupid to withhold it once there’s a damn good chance the scum know it too. I think it more likely that my protect stopped the scum kill than Ore’s claimed block. As such, I’m outted and I should let the Town know. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/858 "2009-08-20T00:44:37Z")
I am at the point now, where I think Town is withholding needed information from other town. If that is not the case, then I am 101% certain we have a third faction here. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/859 "2009-08-20T00:50:22Z")
Elaborating : \*\* Why do we have so many people claiming?! \*\* Something else is going on here, and all of Town is not in on it. A. Town should tell Town OR B. A Third party is in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801/860 "2009-08-20T00:52:05Z")
Further, but in its own right: Should we be concerned that we had a Detective, and a Day Vig go after Story? Does this not shake out for you guys as well? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weird-wild-west-mafia-werewolf-psychopath/504801.md?page=44)