# Weirdest prehistoric species ever seen - A four-winged dinosaur! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 22, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285 "2003-01-22T20:40:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/1 "2003-01-22T20:40:37Z")
[MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.com/news/862757.asp?0dm=C11KT) > [@](#): > > Paleontologists were intrigued by the discovery. They have seen the fossils of gliding dinosaurs before, but never one with feathers. And they have never seen traces of a four-winged dinosaur before. > > “It would be a total oddity — the weirdest creature in the world of dinosaurs and birds,” said Luis Chiappe, a paleontologist at the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County who did not participate in the dig. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/2 "2003-01-22T20:46:07Z")
From China come some of the best preserved flying fossils in the world and periodic fakes, compilations of two different animals meant to appear as one. Has this been absolutely verified yet? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/3 "2003-01-22T21:14:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > \*\*From China come some of the best preserved flying fossils in the world and periodic fakes, compilations of two different animals meant to appear as one. Has this been absolutely verified yet? \*\* From the link I posted it’s going to be in Nature so I suppose everyone will have a chance to decide for themsleves, but I think papers for a journal as prestigious as Nature would be pretty throughly vetted for obvious fraud. > [@](#): > > Details of the fossils appear in Thursday’s issue of the journal Nature. > Paleontologist Xing Xu of the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology at the Chinese Academy of Sciences described six fossils with leg feathers arranged in a pattern similar to wing feathers in modern birds. > “They are long, and some have asymmetrical vanes like flight feathers,” Xu said. > The feathered legs amount to rear wings, Xu said. He speculated they could have represented an intermediate stage of development before the emergence of true flight powered by flapping the wings. Or, the feathered legs could have been an evolutionary dead end, other researchers said. > Scientists believe Microraptor gui probably did not fly by flapping its wings, because of the way the rear legs are set in the hip sockets and because the rear legs probably would have encountered turbulence from flapping front wings. That suggests instead that both sets of wings were used just for gliding, Chiappe said. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/4 "2003-01-22T21:45:55Z")
> [@](#): > > It would be a total oddity — the weirdest creature in the world of dinosaurs and birds But only because the turduckin isn’t a real animal. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/5 "2003-01-22T21:47:21Z")
I want one! I want one! I want one! Can someone arrange to send a bone or two off to the Raelians? ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/6 "2003-01-22T22:11:32Z")
I’m still holding out for the days when Jackelopes can frolick freely again. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/7 "2003-01-22T22:15:41Z")
From the MSNBC article: > [@](#): > > Exactly where the creature fits into the evolution of birds and dinosaurs is not clear. > […] > The latest find tends to support the gliding-in-trees theory. “It’s a phenomenal find,” Chiappe said. “We don’t have anything that resembles this in the whole dinosaur and bird spectrum.” I’m not sure if it’s MSNBC making the “latest find tends to support” claim or not, but that seems awfully premature, given it is not known with any certainty where _Microraptor_ fits in the dinosaurian family tree. **IF** it is ancestral to later birds, then that claim might be justified. If it is an evolutionary dead-end, which possibility was also mentioned in the article, then it lends no real support for the “trees down” theory. I will have to check _Nature_’s site to see if the article is online yet… ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/8 "2003-01-22T23:34:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blackeyes \* > \*\*I’m still holding out for the days when Jackelopes can frolick freely again. \*\* **LET MY PEOPLE GO!** ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/9 "2003-01-23T00:53:03Z")
More info: [Nature.com](http://www.nature.com/nsu/030120/030120-7.html) (With a nice pic of the fossil.) ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/10 "2003-01-23T01:17:25Z")
Even better is that the [paper itself](http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v421/n6921/abs/nature01342_fs.html&dynoptions=doi1043284506) (“Four-winged dinosaurs from China”) is available free online. Also of interest is the [“news and views”](http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v421/n6921/full/421323a_fs.html) article. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/11 "2003-01-23T18:17:41Z")
If you’re going to call feather covered rear legs “wings” then that feather covered tail is a wing too. So I count 5 wings. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/12 "2003-01-23T21:40:40Z")
“Microraptor gui”? Did Bill have anything to do with this dinosaur? A pre-DOS effort at a graphic user interface? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/13 "2003-01-24T00:04:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Did Bill have anything to do with this dinosaur? A pre-DOS effort at a graphic user interface? The name of the discoverer is transliterated from the Chinese as Gu. Of course, to fit into the Linnaean nomencalture, they have to give it the Latin genetive ending. They decided that Gu was a second declension noun (if it had been Latin) and _poof_, it shows up as Gui. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/14 "2003-01-24T00:25:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > \*\*From China come some of the best preserved flying fossils in the world and periodic fakes, compilations of two different animals meant to appear as one. Has this been absolutely verified yet? \*\* According to the _LA Times_ article an number of such fossils have been turned up by locals in the area and some fakes have been exposed. Outside scholars have also seen some of them and there is the _Nature_ article. It is a fascinating story but still early in the process. The scientific work will proceed and it will turn out to be something or else it won’t. In any case the creationists will pooh-pooh it and if it turns out to be not so spectacular as first thought it will be called another counterevolution “proof.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/15 "2003-01-24T17:03:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > \*\*From China come some of the best preserved flying fossils in the world and periodic fakes, compilations of two different animals meant to appear as one. Has this been absolutely verified yet? \*\* According to the Nature article, there are six different fossils of this species, several of which show the feathered hind limbs. Some were collected by the scientists themselves, others were purchased from locals. The fossils have been examined microscopically and by X-ray. A couple have some missing chunks restored with glued-in extraneous pieces, but this does not affect the main part of the fossil itself. There is no question that these particular fossils are authentic. Scientists and journals are being particularly careful now since it was discovered that [Archeoraptor](http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v410/n6828/full/410539b0_fs.html) was composed of fossils of at least two different species that had been glued together. However, both of the original fossils were authentic and significant - it just turned out that _Archeoraptor_ was not quite as bizarre as it originally seemed. But there are many other authenticated fossils of feathered dinosaurs and early birds from China. ---
**Author:** ![Sassy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sassy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sassy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/16 "2003-01-25T04:31:48Z")
Bad new for the [jackelope](http://www.startribune.com/stories/466/3601222.html) fans ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weirdest-prehistoric-species-ever-seen-a-four-winged-dinosaur/150285/17 "2003-01-25T22:55:39Z")
Oh nooooo!!! ☹