# Welcome, castaways! Lost 1.12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449 "2005-01-12T22:15:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/61 "2005-01-13T03:28:49Z")
Yes, one of my norths is supposed to be geographic north. So there is no issue with the north from watching the sun being different that what a compass says - its true for much of the world. Brian (who doesn’t live that far from the agonic line - where geographic and magnetic line up) ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/62 "2005-01-13T03:32:36Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Yes, one of my norths is supposed to be geographic north. > So there is no issue with the north from watching the sun being different that what a compass says - its true for much of the world. > > Brian > (who doesn’t live that far from the agonic line - where geographic and magnetic line up) That’s what I was thinking, what’s why I was curious just how far off the compass was. I think all Sayid says is that it’s off more than it should be (the most he says it should be off is, IIRC, 3 or 4 degrees). Does a person’s distance from the poles have any relation to how far off the compass is? If they know their latitude, then I can see Sayid knowing about how far off a compass should be, given where they are. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/63 "2005-01-13T03:33:49Z")
[QUOTE=Achren] That’s what I was thinking, **that’s** why I was curious just how far off the compass was. [QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/64 "2005-01-13T03:42:48Z")
> [@av8rmike](#): > > As long as the sun is setting in the west, true north never changes! Where the sun sets depends on the season. Even at the equator it only sets due west twice a year. At the summer solstice it would set 23 1/2 degrees north of west and at the winter solstice it would set 23 1/2 degrees south of west. If the island is above the Tropic of Cancer or Below the Tropic of Capricorn, it never sets directly to the west. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/65 "2005-01-13T03:50:46Z")
> [@](#): > > from _Silver Fire_ > Did Locke know that Boone loves (like, love loves) Shannon? I think so. I think Locke is probably the most perceptive person on the island, and he observes a lot more than the others realize. I think he had a pretty good idea of what was behind the Boone/Shannon tension, even if he didn’t know the details. I also think that he had this “lesson” thing planned before Boone brought up the “I want to tell at least Shannon about the thing we found” business. Before that scene, Locke was already mixing the stuff in the bowl and said, “This is for later” – whether it was hallucinagen, or just for the wound, Locke was already planning to knock him on the head and tie him up. * * * I haven’t been playing in these threads yet, so I presume TCM is somebody’s abbreviation for the supposed monster (or monstre… ;)) – can somebody fill me in? * * * > [@](#): > > from _h.sapiens_ > When Locke was questioning Boone about his experience by the fire, I definitely felt that Locke had some idea of what Boone had gone through. Well, something definitely happened to Locke out there in the jungle by himself in episode #4, when he was supposedly face to face with whatever was out there. But they never told us what, dammit. So, anybody think that down that metal hatch will be a storeroom filled with toy airplanes? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/66 "2005-01-13T04:00:08Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > I haven’t been playing in these threads yet, so I presume TCM is somebody’s abbreviation for the supposed monster (or monstre… ;)) – can somebody fill me in? That’s our abbreviation for Tree Crushing Monster. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/67 "2005-01-13T04:01:21Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > Sawyer got hauled into that Australian police station. Why? His flashback had him in the States, no? Well, they were **all** flying from Australia to L.A. on that plane, so apparently he got himself in trouble with the law in Sydney before getting on the plane. But I think you’re right – his flashback was in the States. Most of the others have at least told us why each character was in Australia and on that plane (except for Sayid, I think). I’m guessing we’ll get another flashback story on Sawyer telling us why he was in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![GraceTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@GraceTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraceTX)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/68 "2005-01-13T04:07:33Z")
Oh my heck, I could not stop laughing when Jin was trying to get Hurley out of the water. I had to rewind that part and watch it over and over. And then when Hurley kept asking Jin to pee on his foot. Too funny. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/69 "2005-01-13T04:11:35Z")
Kate’s been getting on my nerves lately, too. What was that story she was telling Sun about being on her way to Bali? She can’t refrain from lying, even when she thinks the person she’s talking to can’t understand a word she’s saying. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/70 "2005-01-13T04:20:25Z")
I thought it would have been funnier if Kate had talked all about her criminal history in the mistaken belief that Sun wouldn’t understand and then realized Sun spoke English. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/71 "2005-01-13T04:24:00Z")
On another issue, here’s a wild speculation. How do we know the Locke we’re seeing is the same Locke that was on the plane? He seemed like a relatively normal and social person at first. Then he went into the woods and encountered the monster. The outcome of this was never shown. But since then he’s become much stranger. Maybe he’s a pod-Locke (insert your own puns about padlocks and pot luck). ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/72 "2005-01-13T04:27:11Z")
> [@Silver Fire](#): > > Perhaps. I’m not sure what, exactly, Locke was talking about though. See post #42. > > So was Boone drugged or did the TCM invent all that drama for him? I should go post in the Questions thread… > > Oh, since I’m here anyway: A) These weekly threads move way too fast. B) The speed of the board isn’t helping. > > And on preview, thanks for the assist, **WhyNot**. The way I’m seeing it: Locke has chosen Boone to be the next one to become part of the Island. He set up the circumstance for Boone’s spirit vision but there wasn’t any way for him to control (or even know) what that vision would be. However, he saw the meaning behind what the Island showed Boone in his drug induced hallucination, namely, “You are now free.” JUST LIKE HE IS! Locke is free from his former life as a cripple. Boone is free from his former life as an emotional cripple. Walt is next. All speculation. We watched this at my cousin’s house tonight, so I haven’t read the thread other than skimming for things that reflect my own ideas about this ep. Point of technicality: was that legally incest? Not blood related, true, but raised as the same family. Obviously, Boone’s Shannon obsession would screw him up royaly, esp since it sounds like his Mom was a controlling bitch, too. So, emotionally, and possibly morally (depends on what sort of spirituality they may or may not adhere to), he felt it was somehow wrong, but he couldn’t control it. Still, I guess it’s a moot point now. He’s free from any of that worry. Free from being manipulated and controlled by Shannon. Free to become part of the Island, whether she follows suit or not. Good ep. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/73 "2005-01-13T04:29:43Z")
> [@Alias](#): > > He’s a good liar, but I don’t think he’s bad. I think he has different ideas about things, and strange ways to teach lessons, but he hasn’t hurt anyone at all. In fact, he’s saved at least 3 lives. I see a schism in the future of the island, and I think Jack and Lock will be the two leaders on opposing sides. Just a guess. I definitely agree that we’re about to see a power struggle, but I think Jin will be the leader of one faction. She’s got natural island-fu going, like Locke and Kate, but in a peaceful, healing way. She’s using traditional, natural medicine, unlike Jack’s new-fangled stuff. She’s being set up as a leading, she only has to realize it first. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/74 "2005-01-13T04:39:43Z")
Oh my god I love this show. I am so hooked. I missed some of the early ones. :o :smack: Can anyone make me a set of VHS tapes? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/75 "2005-01-13T04:43:19Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > I definitely agree that we’re about to see a power struggle… According to the preview shown just before _Alias_, Sayid really wants to leave the island. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/76 "2005-01-13T05:01:03Z")
> [@h.sapiens](#): > > Kate’s been getting on my nerves lately, too. What was that story she was telling Sun about being on her way to Bali? She might have been. She said something about then ending up on a plane to LA, i.e. getting caught. Bali’s probably a good place to hide from the law, just not ocean disasters. I don’t think Locke is _evil_, he just seems to have lost some of his humanity. I’m thinking this is the ‘infection’ that the French Lady was talking about. First Locke, then Boone…next they try for Walt? And the Island shows him the polar bear he thinks about? ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/77 "2005-01-13T05:01:32Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > How do we know the Locke we’re seeing is the same Locke that was on the plane? He seemed like a relatively normal and social person at first. Are we talking about Mr. Orange-Face in episode #1? the guy who played backgammon by himself in ep #2, then hung out with just the kid…? the guy who stared off into the distance with a sinister look at the end of ep #3? just wondering… 😉 (He’s always been a little “off”, but he’s cool. :)) > [@](#): > > from _Menocchio_ > but I think Jin will be the leader of one faction. She’s got natural island-fu going I presume you mean Sun? Jin’s the guy – who wouldn’t pee on Hurley. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/78 "2005-01-13T05:04:10Z")
So here’s the thing that’s bugging me… Does nobody give a crap any more about Claire? “Oh, well… we lost the trail… guess she’s gone… nothing we can do… tough titty for her…” ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/79 "2005-01-13T05:06:53Z")
Good point, **Monstre**. Everyone except Boone seemed all smiles in this ep. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Spree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Spree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spree)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449/80 "2005-01-13T05:13:47Z")
It wasn’t just a dream - Boone had a [vision quest](http://www.crystalinks.com/visionquest.html). > [@](#): > > In its own way - the vision quest is an Initiation not unlike the days of the ancient mystery school teachings where one learns about themselves and the mysteries of the universe are often revealed to them. It is a time of internal transformation and renewal. Who am I? Why am I here? > > In a vision quest conditions are set up that allow the soul to move beyond the illusions of the little self and enter the unity of the inner whole. > > (snip) > > **It is a period of solitude in which we seek an inner revelation - a vision -which grants profound meaning and direction to our life. This initiation leads to maturity and an understanding of our responsibility to ourselves, our society, our natural environment, and our soul.** I liked the episode because of this - it’s perfectly in keeping with Locke’s mystical leanings. He knew that Boone was conflicted, and put him through the vision quest in search of the answer/resolution. YMMV, but I thought it was apropos, not cheesy. Can any of you philosophy experts tie in John Locke’s theories with the last bit above about “responsibility to ourselves, our society, our natural environment…”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-castaways-lost-1-12/284449.md?page=5)