# Welcome to hell Jihadi John, please take a seat on the nearest burner. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520 "2015-11-14T02:51:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/41 "2015-11-14T20:26:21Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s tech porn: look what we can do and no one white gets hurt. The object of war has _always_ been to see what you can do without yourself getting hurt. It’s not _supposed_ to be “fair” or “noble” or “sporting”. The idea is to kill as many of theirs as you can possibly can without any of yours getting killed. The mindset that war should somehow be clean and bloodless and TV-PG rated is more in line with your comments about video games than the actual reality of the matter. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/42 "2015-11-14T20:51:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The object of war has _always_ been to see what you can do without yourself getting hurt. It’s not _supposed_ to be “fair” or “noble” or “sporting”. The idea is to kill as many of theirs as you can possibly can without any of yours getting killed. > > The mindset that war should somehow be clean and bloodless and TV-PG rated is more in line with your comments about video games than the actual reality of the matter. Yep, that’s why they bomb western cities. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/43 "2015-11-14T20:53:52Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The problem being that he will probably be congratulated upon becoming a martyr. Well, they can all go pray at the shitstain left on the street where he spent his last few seconds on earth. Meanwhile, the CIA estimated up to 31,500 ISIS fighters. They also estimate 10,000 have been killed. Our work is 1/3 done as I see it. I suspect that Russia and now France joining in the battle may increase ISIS attrition rates. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/44 "2015-11-14T22:33:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Well, they can all go pray at the shitstain left on the street where he spent his last few seconds on earth. They very well may. That is why bin ladin was buried at sea. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Meanwhile, the CIA estimated up to 31,500 ISIS fighters. They also estimate 10,000 have been killed. Our work is 1/3 done as I see it. I suspect that Russia and now France joining in the battle may increase ISIS attrition rates. Russia and France on the same side. It recalls August, 1914. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/45 "2015-11-14T23:54:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Russia and France on the same side. It recalls August, 1914. It recalls 1996-2003. 😛 Although less “shooty” Russia and France were both part of the NATO peacekeeping missions in Bosnia and Kosovo. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/46 "2015-11-15T00:38:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The object of war has _always_ been to see what you can do without yourself getting hurt. It’s not _supposed_ to be “fair” or “noble” or “sporting”. The idea is to kill as many of theirs as you can possibly can without any of yours getting killed. If it comes down to actual fighting war. The “civilized” ideal is to convince the other side that they’ll be so likely killed if it comes to an actual fight, that they’d rather not find out for sure. But once committed you have to really destroy and defeat the opponent. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/47 "2015-11-15T00:40:53Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Oh, fuck yeah! Piss away, my good man. Just make sure you leave a dry spot for the rest of us. But feel free to stop by my beer concession first. I’m having a special on Miller Lite. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/48 "2015-11-15T01:32:07Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > But feel free to stop by my beer concession first. I’m having a special on Miller Lite. Isnt Colibri Miller Lite? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/49 "2015-11-15T01:47:00Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > If it comes down to actual fighting war. The “civilized” ideal is to convince the other side that they’ll be so likely killed if it comes to an actual fight, that they’d rather not find out for sure. But once committed you have to really destroy and defeat the opponent. “The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/50 "2015-11-15T02:11:04Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > “The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” **Woody Allen:** Has anybody read that Nazis are gonna march in New Jersey? Y’know, I read this in the newspaper. We should go down there, get some guys together, y’know, get some bricks and baseball bats and really explain things to them. **Party Guest:** There is this devastating satirical piece on that on the Op Ed page of the _Times_, it is devastating. **Woody Allen:** Well, a satirical piece in the Times is one thing, but bricks and baseball bats really gets right to the point. **Party Guest:** Oh, but really biting satire is always better than physical force. **Woody Allen:** No, physical force is always better with Nazis. – _Manhattan_ (1979) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/51 "2015-11-15T02:17:11Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > **Woody Allen:** Has anybody read that Nazis are gonna march in New Jersey? Y’know, I read this in the newspaper. We should go down there, get some guys together, y’know, get some bricks and baseball bats and really explain things to them. > > **Party Guest:** There is this devastating satirical piece on that on the Op Ed page of the _Times_, it is devastating. > > **Woody Allen:** Well, a satirical piece in the Times is one thing, but bricks and baseball bats really gets right to the point. > > **Party Guest:** Oh, but really biting satire is always better than physical force. > > **Woody Allen:** No, physical force is always better with Nazis. > > – _Manhattan_ (1979) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/52 "2015-11-15T03:05:25Z")
But then: [Anti-Muslim rally outside Parramatta mosque only attracts a small number of people](http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/anti-muslim-rally-outside-parramatta-mosque-only-attracts-a-small-number-of-people/story-fnj3rq0y-1227563837652) > [@](#): > > THEY “threatened” hundreds of anti-Muslim protesters would take to the streets to demand Parramatta Mosque shut down unless it “publicly rejects terrorism and sharia law”. > > Superintendent Wayne Cox of Parramatta Police told media earlier they were expecting around 300 protesters to gather on Marsden Street, outside the mosque where 15-year-old Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar visited before he shot Curtis Cheng a week ago. > > To prevent both sides from clashing, police set up a 100m exclusion zone and closed Marsden Street, in between George and Macquarie Streets, from 4pm. > > Initially there were only a dozen anti-Mulsim protesters, but that doubled by 6pm. > > However it was the police who had the biggest number with 75 officers, including the mounted unit, on hand to squash any clashes. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/53 "2015-11-15T03:07:03Z")
Just to be clear: I am not anti-Muslim. I am anti-ISIS. Just like I am anti-Nazi but not anti-German. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/54 "2015-11-15T03:18:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Jihadi John may no longer be the coward he was as he hid behind those black robes and murdered innocent people. It appears that there’s a good chance he’s resting in pieces on some street now. Good work drone drivers. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/middleeast/jihadi-john-airstrike-target/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/middleeast/jihadi-john-airstrike-target/index.html) > > Hopefully, the feral dogs will piss on what’s left of you. nah, pick up the pieces and feed him to a pen full of pigs. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/55 "2015-11-15T03:55:16Z")
That’s awful cruel to the pigs… ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/56 "2015-11-15T06:28:50Z")
The willful ignorance people have of ISIS is staggering. They are not al Qaeda, which is a shadowy global terrorist network which wants to disrupt the West in any way possible. ISIS is – or claims to be – a caliphate. The first Koranic “state” since the Ottoman Empire fell in 1924 (even though they don’t consider the Ottomans as a “true” caliphate, whatever). A caliphate is a state that’s run with the strictest, letter-of-the-law interpretation of Islam possible, and according to the Koran, if a caliphate exists and you don’t declare allegiance to it, you’re not a true Muslim, aka you’re dead. This is bad, because fundamentalist religious types, in general, want to live in the most fundamental way possible. Islam, Christianity, Buddhists – doesn’t matter. Like with Christianity, actually Catholicism – imagine if there hadn’t been a Pope for almost a century, and suddenly a Pope was declared in the ruins of the former Vatican (eh… stick with me a bit…) and this Pope declared they were going to be the most Roman Catholic goddamn state the world had ever seen, and yea – there might be a stoning or two of harlots – but fuck it, there will also be downright progressive social programs, like free food and healthcare for all. Fundamentalist Catholics would flock to the place, because of course they would. Just as (some kinds) of fundamentalist Muslism are flocking to ISIS – they want to be a part of A True Muslim State, unlike places like Saudi Arabia that only pick and choose which parts of the Koran to follow. But this is good, because unlike al Qaeda, ISIS is telling you exactly what it’s doing and why. Maybe not the details – like the recent attacks in France – but there were warnings then. Anyway, point is: there’s a blueprint for its destruction. For instance, a caliphate has really strict rules for existing. The caliph – the Pope, if you will – can only exist if it has “authority” to exist. As in, it has to have land. If you take away the land, the caliphate no longer exists, and ISIS no longer exists. And unlike al-Qaeda, if you destroy ISIS it’s not going to go underground. It actually can’t go underground – that’s also against the rules accoring the Koran. Likewise, you can kill the caliph. You can confuse them with academic questions – like, is their interpretation of the Koran correct? There’s a lot of different interpretations out there, which are just as fundamental. Or their tactics – isn’t suicide a sin according the Koran? What happens to suicide bombers, then? Or you can question their legitimacy – the Koran says for a caliphate to exist, there must be an international consensus in the Muslim community that it has a legitimate right to exist and as of right now, only ISIS is saying it’s a caliphate. Not even al-Qaeda likes the fuckers. Point is, al-Qaeda is a war of ideas, but it’s nearly impossible to stop because it’s nebulous and underground. ISIS is a war of ideas, but it’s relatively easy to stop, if you want to spend the resources doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/57 "2015-11-15T10:22:44Z")
The problem I have with your strategy is that disbanding ISIL and their efforts to establish a caliphate does not account for what happens with the former members of ISIL. ISIL is just a symptom - the disease is the tens of thousands of men who look at a theocratic dictatorship built on rape and murder and like what they see. If they see a reason to identify themselves as such and then congregate together under a banner where we can kill them with a clear conscience, I would rather use that opportunity to cull their numbers than focus on removing that reason to congregate. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/58 "2015-11-15T12:33:53Z")
Unless you deal with Saudi Arabia first it’s all so much bandage on a wound that won’t heal. But the US won’t, all those 9/11 Saudi passport holders flying planes into New York building and … nothing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/59 "2015-11-15T12:44:48Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Well, they can all go pray at the shitstain left on the street where he spent his last few seconds on earth. > > Meanwhile, the CIA estimated up to 31,500 ISIS fighters. They also estimate 10,000 have been killed. Our work is 1/3 done as I see it. I suspect that Russia and now France joining in the battle may increase ISIS attrition rates. The CIA also considers any military age male it happens to kill to be an enemy target. But the best part of your analysis is that Da-esh is unable to recruit any new fighters so every time will kill one, we don’t have to worry about another person taking his place. :rolleyes: Guess you did not sit through the BODY COUNT updates we used to get in the nightly news during the 60s. Or the constant “victory is right around the corner; the next 6 months will be pivotal” chanting from Cheney et al during the '00s. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520/60 "2015-11-15T16:22:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The CIA also considers any military age male it happens to kill to be an enemy target. But the best part of your analysis is that Da-esh is unable to recruit any new fighters so every time will kill one, we don’t have to worry about another person taking his place. :rolleyes: > > … If you weren’t intent on ignoring logic and, like a drunk, stumbling around in a topic looking for an alley to get lost in, I’d engage you. But keeping you focused would require a team of competent doctors and a cabinet full of modern drugs, and a pair of blinders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-hell-jihadi-john-please-take-a-seat-on-the-nearest-burner/737520.md?page=4)