# Welcome to the Canadoper Café, 2025! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 31, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410 "2024-12-31T21:26:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/121 "2025-01-19T02:15:41Z")
My post was set up poorly - that statement was not a comparison to Trump, despite the immediately previous text mentioning Trump. That statement was in response to the following statement, a couple of posts earlier than that one: “If I voted Conservative in 2006 am I criminally liable for, well, whatever they subsequently did? **It’s been awhile but I’m sure they did something awful**.” Hope that clears things up. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/122 "2025-01-19T13:47:05Z")
While I support the sentiment of the cap, I find it hard to stomach the hypocrisy of Doug Ford wearing it. This is the man who tried to sell off the Ontario Greenbelt to developers, who has given away Ontario Place with a sweetheart lease to a foreign spa company with a crap business plan, and who just closed the Ontario Science Centre within minutes of getting a report that said the roof needed fixing. Why? We don’t know, but it’s just across the street from a building being constructed by one of Doug’s developer friends/donors, and Mr. Ford has mentioned the idea of turning the former OSC land into housing. So Doug Ford can pose as the Saviour of Canada all he wants - I still think he’s full of shit and would sell us all out in a heartbeat! ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/123 "2025-01-19T13:49:24Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > And yeah - I could come up with a good lot of Stephen Harper awfulness, but in no hijack mood. It’s no hijack. The legacies of all Canadian politicians are fair game for discussion and debate in this thread, if you ever do feel in the mood to talk about the Stephen Harper years. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/124 "2025-01-19T13:57:02Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > So Doug Ford can pose as the Saviour of Canada all he wants - I still think he’s full of shit and would sell us all out in a heartbeat! How about concluding that despite his faults, he’s a patriotic Canadian who loves his country and respects our values? He’s undoubtedly an uber-capitalist who favours commercial interests, and may even be corrupt, but that doesn’t make him any less of a patriot who’s protective of our sovereignty. As I’ve often said about other individuals, people can be complicated, and can be several different things at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/125 "2025-01-19T14:04:28Z")
Exactly. Having the Premier of Ontario, Canada’s largest province, taking a strong stance right from the start on this issue is extremely important. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/126 "2025-01-19T20:35:46Z")
You are welcome to form your own opinions - mine has been formed through years of the Ford brothers fucking up Toronto in particular and Ontario in general. I believe it was Samuel Johnson who said ‘Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel’, and Doug Ford is the latest example. I do grant you that he looks better than Danielle ‘No Canadian tariffs on Alberta oil’ Smith right now, but that isn’t saying much. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/127 "2025-01-19T23:54:00Z")
Ford has many faults. But it is good and appropriate he is speaking up. Canada should be making a lot more noise. I don’t doubt Ford’s patriotism. My Canada is also Not For Sale. And Ford keeps getting elected because he is more popular than the alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/128 "2025-01-20T00:00:17Z")
No matter how odious Ford is, I’d rather have him wearing a “Canada Is Not For Sale” cap, and making the remarks he’s made on the matter; than I would have Danielle Smith going to Mar-a-Lago to suck up to Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/129 "2025-01-20T00:24:48Z")
Couldn’t agree more. I was never a fan of either Ford, at all, but Smith actually going the blankety-blank down there… I was hoping I would’ve seen some news items about Albertans pushing back / protesting the pilgrimage - perhaps I’ve missed that? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/130 "2025-01-20T00:40:18Z")
I’m in Alberta, and I’ve heard nothing from local news. Doesn’t mean that such things haven’t happened; but if they have, media editors seem to have decided that hockey news is more important this weekend. 🙄 It’s unscientific, but FWIW, none of my local friends and acquaintances who have made their views known on the matter, think much of Smith’s trip. Naturally, other Albertans may have differing views, so my experience with my friends does not mean much. But at least it shows that not all Albertans are on board with Smith and her attempts to curry favour with Trump. . ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/131 "2025-01-20T02:29:33Z")
How do they feel about TC Energy? _Two of Trump’s presumptive appointees share a family connection with a senior TC Energy executive._ _Julia Nesheiwat has been vice-president of policy and insights for TC Energy since October 2022. She was a homeland security adviser to Trump during his first term._ _Her sister is Janette Nesheiwat, Trump’s pick for U.S. surgeon general. Julia Nesheiwat is also married to Mike Waltz, a member of Congress for Florida’s 6th district and incoming national security adviser to Trump._ _Waltz was seated in between Julia Nesheiwat and Trump at the dinner with Trudeau [at Mar-A-Lago]. In [a post](https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/113573136856113648)on his social media platform Truth Social, Trump said that energy was a topic of conversation at the Mar-a-Lago dinner. An unnamed senior government official also told [Politico](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/01/trudeau-trump-energy-trade-arctic-00192048) that pipelines were specifically mentioned. They didn’t say whether TC Energy’s pipelines were among those discussed._ [https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/canadian-pipgonatsline-giant-tc-energy-closely-connected-with-incoming-trump-administration/ar-AA1vBEcI](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/canadian-pipgonatsline-giant-tc-energy-closely-connected-with-incoming-trump-administration/ar-AA1vBEcI) ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/132 "2025-01-22T04:26:15Z")
Nice to see BC Premier Eby announcing today his participation with “Team Canada” in counter-acting US tariffs. Didn’t listen to all 24 minutes, but a good chunk of it - I found quite uplifting and worth a listen. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/DNuRIthtYg4/maxresdefault.jpg "B.C. Premier David Eby responds to Trump’s renewed tariff threat – January 21, 2025") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNuRIthtYg4) ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/133 "2025-01-23T18:05:52Z")
So Mr. Trump is threatening to impose severe (25%) tariffs in 9 days. I’m having a difficult time processing this level of betrayal from a so-called ally, and I’m sure many of the rest of us are, too. I have many questions - frankly, I’m a bit out of my depth politically and economically here, but that’s good; it means I’m not afraid to ask the stupid questions. First off, how does this work under USMCA/NAFTA/FTA? Does this mean those agreements are now just ripped up and tossed over our shoulders? Are there no penalties for unilateral changes? What about the WTO? Or the UN? Do we have any justification for a proceeding against the US there? I remember Canada kept getting tariffs imposed on our softwood lumber exports - we’d go to some regulatory body, the US would lose the case, they’d take the tariffs away for a day or two, then impose a new slightly different tariff and back we’d go again… Eventually, we had to make a deal that wasn’t to our advantage but that was better than the tariffs. All this from memory of the 1990s and 2000s… I’m curious, too - I saw Danielle Smith quoted as saying “No Canadian tariffs on Alberta oil!”, which I’m sure played well with her base if no one else, but - other than complaining about it, is there anything she could do about it? That’s a question for those of you who know more than I do about inter-provincial trade and federal-provincial trade relations. Then we hit the meat of the question - what are Canada’s options in the face of US tariffs? Ultimately, I don’t think we stand a chance militarily, and considering the weak response of the UN/NATO to the completely illegal annexation of Ukraine by Russia, I doubt any of our allies would be able to do much for us. I don’t think we’ve remotely given the US the provocation for an invasion, but then, we didn’t give them any provocation for the ‘economic force’ that Donald Trump wants to use. Measured against that, what are our best retaliatory options? Counter-tariffs? Consumer boycotts? Sanctions against the importation of certain US goods? Stop every car and truck coming from the US for a minimum of an hour while we strip-search the occupants and reduce the vehicle to nuts and bolts? Cut off our oil, gas, and hydro exports to the US? (Actually, if Quebec sent all the power to crypto farms instead of to the US, we could really fuck up their economy!) That’s all I’ve got - questions without answers! Talk to me, Canadopers - how do you see the situation? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/134 "2025-01-23T19:12:59Z")
Wish I had answers - feels like there’s still a lot up in the air right now. Cross-posted from Elon/X thread: Cool - whole municipal districts, now, are f.o.'ing from X. Is this a first? > **[District of North Vancouver exits X. Will other municipalities follow? | CBC...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/north-vancouver-x-exit-1.7438498)** > > The municipality's corporate account was shuttered for good on Wednesday, a victim of falling public engagement and concerns raised by local residents. > [@](#): > > “Did North Van lose a valuable communications tool? They did when Elon bought Twitter,” said Williams. "Just because something was useful before doesn’t mean it’s going to be useful in the future. > [@](#): > > “With an audience of over 269,000 on X, we are currently exploring the operational impacts of deactivating the City of Vancouver’s X account and how this may affect communicating with users across the city,” said a City of Vancouver spokesperson. > [@](#): > > City of New Westminster communication co-ordinator Melissa Nilan said New West anticipates there may be a need for change in the near future but nothing has been finalized. > [@](#): > > Surrey is not contemplating any changes to its X use at this time, according to a spokeperson. Oh, Surrey! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/135 "2025-01-23T19:27:13Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > You are welcome to form your own opinions - mine has been formed through years of the Ford brothers fucking up Toronto in particular and Ontario in general. Doug Ford is not his brother. Relatively speaking, he’s always been (relatively) the sane one. As mayor of Toronto, Rob Ford was an embarrasment. As premier of Ontario, Doug Ford hasn’t been bad, IMHO, at least not compared to some of the other premiers we’ve had. > [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I believe it was Samuel Johnson who said ‘Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel’, and Doug Ford is the latest example. I would think it’s obvious that Johnson was referring to “faux-patriotism”, the kind practiced by Trumpists, and not genuine love of country. Which turns out to indeed the case: > On the evening of 7 April 1775, [Samuel Johnson] made a famous statement: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” The line was not, as is widely believed, about patriotism in general but rather what Johnson saw as the false use of the term “patriotism” by William Pitt, 1st Earl of Chatham (the patriot minister) and his supporters. Johnson opposed most “self-professed patriots” in general but valued what he considered “true” patriotism. > [Political views of Samuel Johnson - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Samuel_Johnson) > [@Horatius](#): > > I like Doug Ford’s suggestion to drop all US liquors from the LCBO. I can live with that. My vodka of choice comes from Sweden, and though my current preferred rum is from Puerto Rico, there’s an even better rum from Cuba, it’s just a little more pricey. I’m fine with a total boycott on US liquor, just as we did with Russian liquor. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/136 "2025-01-23T19:28:08Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Measured against that, what are our best retaliatory options? Counter-tariffs? Consumer boycotts? Sanctions against the importation of certain US goods? Stop every car and truck coming from the US for a minimum of an hour while we strip-search the occupants and reduce the vehicle to nuts and bolts? Cut off our oil, gas, and hydro exports to the US? Counter-tariffs are the most likely response, but they’ll have to be carefully targeted. Any tariffs will raise prices for Canadians, and we don’t want to cut off our noses to spite our faces. Someone needs to spend a lot of time finding a tariff that maximizes US suffering without going over the top on Canadian suffering. Banning some imports is probably the best option, in my mind, but again it needs to be carefully targeted. We can’t cut off things Canadians actually need. I like Doug Ford’s suggestion to drop all US liquors from the LCBO. We can get enough good booze from Canadian and other foreign markets, so we don’t need the US booze. And the LCBO is a big enough buyer that the change will be noticed immediately. We need to find other such products we can live without. Consumer boycotts will happen, but the public is notoriously fickle and unreliable with such things, so the impact is likely to be small. I wouldn’t pull any serious stunts at the border that target just regular people. Those coming across clearly already kind of like Canada, and pissing them off in particular seems like a lose-lose position for us. What I’d do is encourage a smuggler’s attitude among US citizens. “Come to Niagara Falls! Cheap booze and Cuban cigars, just across the border!” Get them spending money here, and then smuggle the stuff home. Oil and gas cuts would hurt everyone. Alberta’s economy would crash again, which I don’t think benefits anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/137 "2025-01-23T19:36:28Z")
Now you’ve gone a screwed up the time-space continuum! 😠 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/138 "2025-01-23T19:37:31Z")
I knew what you were going to write before you wrote it! 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/139 "2025-01-23T20:37:47Z")
And all of Canada says in unison, “Well, okay then, buddy…” > **[Trump tells World Economic Forum U.S. doesn’t need Canadian oil, gas, autos...](https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/trump-tells-world-economic-forum-us-doesnt-need-canadian-oil-gas-autos-or-lumber/)** > > U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday said the United States did not need Canadian oil, gas, autos or lumber and reiterated his suggestion that Canada become the 51st U.S. state. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410/140 "2025-01-24T00:38:40Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I’m having a difficult time processing this level of betrayal from a so-called ally, and I’m sure many of the rest of us are, too. The United States is now a hostile nation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-canadoper-cafe-2025/1012410.md?page=8)