# Welcome to the culture of death **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071 "2005-04-06T18:21:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/1 "2005-04-06T18:21:52Z")
So it begins. I didn’t think it [would be so soon](http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/43933.htm). > [@](#): > > In an era when science allows incapacitated, brain-damaged patients to live for years on a feeding tube, governments — like the one in Albany — cannot afford to hand out blank checks. Welcome to Nazi Germany. Godwin’s Law is no longer relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/2 "2005-04-06T18:31:02Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Welcome to Nazi Germany. Godwin’s Law is no longer relevant. The Nazis killed/sterilized the sick to keep them from breeding. I don’t think that’s what your article is discussing. This thread has indeed been Godwinized by the first post. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/3 "2005-04-06T18:36:46Z")
I see. So you contend that not using public money to allow anyone with a relative in a vegetative state to keep that relative on life-support indefinitely at the public’s expense is the same as actively rounding up a particular ethnic group indiscriminately and sending them to gas chambers? Welcome to Bad Analogy Theater. Next week on Bad Analogy Theater: not tipping your server is exactly the same as killing everyone in the restaurant with a butcher’s knife. I mean, good God! Your post is a textbook example of why _not_ to drag the Nazis into a discussion! This columnist is not saying people should be taken off feeding tubes willy-nilly. He’s asking who pays for feeding tube. He’s not trying to take away the choice from the responsible family member. He’s asking who pays. He’s not saying people in vegetative states should be rounded up and shot. He’s saying that we should seriously consider the possibility that the government cannot afford to provide long-term medical care to every person or family who might have a use for it, and that this may affect people in vegetative states. Get a grip. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/4 "2005-04-06T18:39:45Z")
And that was only an editorial…the New York government hasn’t decided to do it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/5 "2005-04-06T18:43:23Z")
An editorial in the _New York Post_, no less. This thread cannot end well. It certainly didn’t start well. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/6 "2005-04-06T18:47:20Z")
So _The New York Post_ is _Der Sturmer_? Does that make Candace Bushnell’s _Sex and the City, Mein Kampf_? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/7 "2005-04-06T18:48:02Z")
I don’t see where the Nazi Germany analogy comes from. The article shined light on a difficult issue that needs to be addressed. And if we can’t afford something, we can’t afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/8 "2005-04-06T18:49:41Z")
So, Universal Healthcare is what you want huh? I’m glad you conservative “culture of lifers” and us liberals can agree on something finally. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/9 "2005-04-06T18:58:15Z")
Does “universal health care” in any country include keeping people on a feeding tube decades past the point where all realistic hope was gone? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/10 "2005-04-06T19:01:01Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Does that make Candace Bushnell’s _Sex and the City, Mein Kampf_? That analogy actually works better. Was there ever a government more obsessed with fashion than Nazi Germany? ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/11 "2005-04-06T19:09:25Z")
Y’know, it’s interesting: I listened to a lot of right-wing talk radio during the final days of the Schiavo circus, largely because I needed something to do while driving a long distance across a sparsely populated stretch of territory. The right-wing call-in shows had plenty of callers who were very quick to use the Nazi analogy when describing Judge Greer and Michael Schiavo. In a number of cases, that was the first thing out of the caller’s mouth. It seems to me that the Nazis were a favorite in this case, even though the analogy seldom (if ever) made any sense at all. It happened so often, I have to wonder if this didn’t have some sort of orchestrated effort on the part of right-to-die opponents? A quick Google search reveals a lot of such clutter: [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=Schiavo+Nazi&lr=&sa=N&tab=nw](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=Schiavo+Nazi&lr=&sa=N&tab=nw) This bad analogy is awfully popular. But I guess in this day and age, when some feel it’s appropriate to decry tax increases as “socialism,” bad analogies are all the rage, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/12 "2005-04-06T19:21:36Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > So, Universal Healthcare is what you want huh? I’m glad you conservative “culture of lifers” and us liberals can agree on something finally. Yes, Universal Healthcare sounds so promising, especially after reading how well New York is dealing with only Medicaid costs (and I don’t have counter-cites handy, this is just from the link in the OP. The NY Post might be the most right-wing rag in the country for all I know.). > [@](#): > > Medicaid spending on long-term care in New York amounts to some $14 billion a year — or nearly a third of all Medicaid costs. > > Medicaid overall, meanwhile, has been carving huge craters in state and local budgets. > > Counties and cities have **rocketed up taxes and laid off workers** to pay Medicaid bills. Erie County pink-slipped some 2,000 people last month. > > The **tax hikes, meanwhile, are throttling local economies**. > > For people like Schiavo (and certainly folks more functional than her), subsidized long-term care may be the only morally defensible option. > > But what about the pain to public employees, like those in Erie, who lose their jobs? Or to residents denied sufficient police and firefighters? Or to firms forced to close, move or fire workers because of onerous Medicaid-fueled taxes? > > What about the millions of New Yorkers who must struggle to pay outrageous tax bills to cover the costs of elderly or home-bound New Yorkers? > > Let’s face it: Keeping people alive — and providing for much, if not all, of their long-term care — takes a huge economic toll. > > Families can decide for themselves how much care they want to provide. But when government foots the bill, a cold, dispassionate public debate of the costs is essential. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/13 "2005-04-06T21:45:47Z")
If the New York Post said it, it must be true. :rolleyes: It’s a rag periodical, set up to directly compete with the New York Daily News, the Other rag periodical. neither one is a Newspaper. They both trade in poorly hidden accusations and innuendo, and blatant sensationalism. I would put more stock in the Enqirer for chrissake. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/14 "2005-04-06T22:18:42Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > If the New York Post said it, it must be true. :rolleyes: > It’s a rag periodical, set up to directly compete with the New York Daily News, the Other rag periodical. neither one is a Newspaper. They both trade in poorly hidden accusations and innuendo, and blatant sensationalism. I would put more stock in the Enqirer for chrissake. Correction, they are not even periodicals. They are tabloids. Long on sensationalism and indignation, short on accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/15 "2005-04-06T22:37:16Z")
[off topic] Even when an online post doesn’t start off mentioning Nazis, a disproportionate number of forum debates (not only on SDMB) end up there. Is there a name for this, a “[name]'s Law” stating that every online debate will invariably end in someone being compared to Hitler/the Nazis? [/off topic] ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/16 "2005-04-06T22:45:12Z")
I think this thread should be moved to the Pit. Then I can say what I really feel about the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/17 "2005-04-06T22:53:47Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > That analogy actually works better. Was there ever a government more obsessed with fashion than Nazi Germany? Well, they did love their flare… ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/18 "2005-04-06T22:59:18Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Does that make Candace Bushnell’s _Sex and the City, Mein Kampf_? Yes, but you misspelled that crude word for yoni. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/19 "2005-04-06T23:01:06Z")
Wait! It’s not just Godwin’s _it’s bursting with slippery slope goodness too!_ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/20 "2005-04-06T23:13:00Z")
I just want the OP to admit that he secretly masturbates to fantasies of jamming tubes into people. In other words, the Nazi analogy is bullcrap. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071.md?page=2)