# Welcome to the culture of death **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071 "2005-04-06T18:21:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/41 "2005-04-08T18:34:47Z")
I’d still encourage you to read about the cost disease of the service sector. I’m not an economist, but its really facinating theory that basically says “well, yep - no productivity gains in services, inflation in those sectors is going to be higher than the inflation rate.” Countries with socialized medicine have seen fairly equal gains in the cost of healthcare - in some cases stripping the U.S. inflation rate. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/42 "2005-04-08T18:56:27Z")
To clarify my OP… I was not claiming that an editorial meant that the government would be gassing jews next week. What I was trying to point out is that people are marching down the same line of reasoning that leads to killing people who aren’t considered worth keeping alive. And now, today, I’ve just found out that it’s happening again. A woman in Georgia is being killed because her granddaughter feels that she doesn’t have a good quality of life and because “She has glaucoma and now this heart problem, and who would want to live with disabilities like these?” and “It’s time for her to go back to Jesus.” This is in violation of the woman’s living will, and in spite of the fact that the granddaughter does not have medical power of attorney. She went to a probate judge and got an emergency guardianship. The only place I’ve seen this reported [is on WorldNetDaily](http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43688), but I heard Ken Mullinax on Glenn Beck’s national radio show talk about it and he sounded credible. You can listen to the audio of the interview [free here](http://www.glennbeck.com/audio/free-audio.shtml). Or here’s a [direct link to the audio (windows media)](http://mfile.akamai.com/6713/wma/glennbeck.download.akamai.com/6713/preview/05/04/interview04-08-05.asx). If this turns out to be incorrect, I’ll happily eat my words. But it sure looks like the same thing that started in the 1930’s. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/43 "2005-04-08T20:28:55Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’d still encourage you to read about the cost disease of the service sector. I’m not an economist, but its really facinating theory that basically says “well, yep - no productivity gains in services, inflation in those sectors is going to be higher than the inflation rate.” > > Countries with socialized medicine have seen fairly equal gains in the cost of healthcare - in some cases stripping the U.S. inflation rate. Yes, It does sound like an interesting book. I was on the planning board of the hospital I worked at. We used to get a paper once a year comparing the health care services from different countries. Unfortunately the US was always way down the list on the ratio of care given to care cost. I know National Health Care will not answer all the problems, but at least everyone will be cared for. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/44 "2005-04-08T20:34:17Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > To clarify my OP… I was not claiming that an editorial meant that the government would be gassing jews next week. What I was trying to point out is that people are marching down the same line of reasoning that leads to killing people who aren’t considered worth keeping alive. > > And now, today, I’ve just found out that it’s happening again. A woman in Georgia is being killed because her granddaughter feels that she doesn’t have a good quality of life and because “She has glaucoma and now this heart problem, and who would want to live with disabilities like these?” and “It’s time for her to go back to Jesus.” This is in violation of the woman’s living will, and in spite of the fact that the granddaughter does not have medical power of attorney. She went to a probate judge and got an emergency guardianship. > > The only place I’ve seen this reported [is on WorldNetDaily](http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43688), but I heard Ken Mullinax on Glenn Beck’s national radio show talk about it and he sounded credible. You can listen to the audio of the interview [free here](http://www.glennbeck.com/audio/free-audio.shtml). Or here’s a [direct link to the audio (windows media)](http://mfile.akamai.com/6713/wma/glennbeck.download.akamai.com/6713/preview/05/04/interview04-08-05.asx). > > If this turns out to be incorrect, I’ll happily eat my words. But it sure looks like the same thing that started in the 1930’s. Notice that it is the justice system that is ordering these murders to take place. I saw on TV and the web some organizations are beginning to address the power of the Judicial system. The people can’t vote for the judges, but they can get Congress to pass legislation to stop this type of killing. I believe it will be squashed in the future, when the retired people get into the battle. There are millions of them, and they nearly all vote. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/45 "2005-04-08T22:04:45Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The people can’t vote for the judges, but they can get Congress to pass legislation to stop this type of killing. I believe it will be squashed in the future, when the retired people get into the battle. There are millions of them, and they nearly all vote. If a judge ignores the person’s living will, why do you think he’ll pay attention to Congress? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/46 "2005-04-09T03:01:34Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Notice that it is the justice system that is ordering these murders to take place. I saw on TV and the web some organizations are beginning to address the power of the Judicial system. The people can’t vote for the judges, but they can get Congress to pass legislation to stop this type of killing. I believe it will be squashed in the future, when the retired people get into the battle. There are millions of them, and they nearly all vote. I’m a retired persona and old besides. I believe the opinions of old people, as expressed in the stories I saw during the Schiavo fuck-up, are that Congress and all legislatures should stay the hell out and when it’s terminal, pull the damned plug. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/47 "2005-04-09T08:17:47Z")
So, what about those of who do believe that those in persistent vegetative states should be rounded up & shot (full of morphine, that is)? Where does all this posturing by the “culture of life” leave us? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/48 "2005-04-09T14:05:25Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > If this turns out to be incorrect, I’ll happily eat my words. Well, legitimate news sources are certainly casting doubt on the assertions of your cite site. [http://www.11alive.com/news/news\_article.aspx?storyid=61478](http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=61478) (thanks to **billdo** ) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/49 "2005-04-09T15:45:10Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Wow, just read the appropriate rule so I completely withdraw the statement and would be just fine if it were deleted. we have a rule specifically dealing with masturbatory fantasies? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/50 "2005-04-09T20:37:05Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I’m a retired persona and old besides. I believe the opinions of old people, as expressed in the stories I saw during the Schiavo fuck-up, are that Congress and all legislatures should stay the hell out and when it’s terminal, pull the damned plug. Technically yes, that’s what they said, and that’s also what I said. But when you have the judges twisting the laws to suit their own way of thinking, then Congress is the only place we little people can be heard. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/51 "2005-04-09T21:39:20Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > we have a rule specifically dealing with masturbatory fantasies? > :eek: Well, it’s been nice knowing you all… ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/52 "2005-04-09T22:02:15Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Technically yes, that’s what they said, and that’s also what I said. But when you have the judges twisting the laws to suit their own way of thinking, then Congress is the only place we little people can be heard. Tell me, in what ways have the judges who heard the Schiavo case twisted the law? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/53 "2005-04-10T00:52:43Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Technically yes, that’s what they said, and that’s also what I said. You don’t even seem to remember what you wrote. Reread your post. > [@](#): > > But when you have the judges twisting the laws to suit their own way of thinking, then Congress is the only place we little people can be heard. I’ll bet that you don’t have the slightest idea what the Schiavo case judge’s “way of thinking is.” And why should the “little people” or even the big ones be heard in the private matter of what kind of terminal care an individual gets? Your method would allow me to have a say in the handling of people who think they had an NDE. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/54 "2005-04-10T02:47:58Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Well, legitimate news sources are certainly casting doubt on the assertions of your cite site. > > [http://www.11alive.com/news/news\_article.aspx?storyid=61478](http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=61478) > (thanks to **billdo** ) Thanks for the link. From the story: "Judge Boyd called Mullinax’s charges completely false and said all relatives agreed to let three doctors decide what was next for Magouirk. and "The CEO of the West Georgia Health System told 11Alive News, “No patient at our hospice is denied food or water.” Let’s see. Who do I trust to be telling the truth, WorldNetDaily or a judge and a CEO of a hospice? Hmmmm. That’s a tough call. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/55 "2005-04-10T05:44:48Z")
I saw the video from that link last night, and it was the first I’d seen of the Judge directly–of course the interview with Ken looked fairly convincing as well. It looks like it will be a he-said-she-said for a few more days. The last update I saw was that the woman was taken to a hospital for treatment. Hopefully she’ll recover enough to give her side of the story. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/56 "2005-04-10T06:12:13Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > You don’t even seem to remember what you wrote. Reread your post. > I’ll bet that you don’t have the slightest idea what the Schiavo case judge’s “way of thinking is.” And why should the “little people” or even the big ones be heard in the private matter of what kind of terminal care an individual gets? > > Your method would allow me to have a say in the handling of people who think they had an NDE. OK, whatever you say must be right, I know you couldn’t be wrong on anything. ---
**Author:** ![wonderwench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/35a633/32.png) [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/57 "2005-04-10T15:56:14Z")
The NYPost’s editorial is the logical next step of the Schiavo case combined with the push towards nationalized health care. When the government pays - the goverrnment is going to claim the right to decide who receives treatment, who lives and who dies. It’s unconstitutional, but that won’t stop them. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/58 "2005-04-10T16:56:31Z")
> [@wonderwench](#): > > The NYPost’s editorial is the logical next step of the Schiavo case combined with the push towards nationalized health care. > > When the government pays - the goverrnment is going to claim the right to decide who receives treatment, who lives and who dies. > > It’s unconstitutional, but that won’t stop them. Good point, I guess. However, as someone already pointed out in a previous post in this thread ‘somebody’ already does decide. And sometimes it’s an insurance executive. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/59 "2005-04-11T08:02:57Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > However his care cost about $350,000, a modest amount was paid by insurance and the rest forgiven by the hospital because what does the average guy do when someone says you owe me $300,000? I really question whether society can afford to do such things. Maybe our societies need to look at why medical costs are so expensive because whether you are talking about universal health care or the user pays model costs are getting way out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071/60 "2005-04-11T12:34:35Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > I can’t remember who said, “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one”, but I don’t think it was Hitler. It was [Spock](http://bugslife.imdb.com/title/tt0084726/quotes). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcome-to-the-culture-of-death/298071.md?page=2)