# Welcoming His4ever, Our First Actual "Chick" Chick! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2002, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069 "2002-08-22T13:28:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/101 "2002-08-25T20:13:01Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by gobear \* \*\*That should read > [@](#): > > You are, of course, quite wrong, but there’s not much point in showing you the prevalence of homosexuality in every age and every culture, nor would there be any point in showing the many examples of homosexuality among different species of animals because you wouldn’t listen. \*\* ☹ I respect you opinion tho I disagree. It doesn’t matter if homosexuality is practiced by every culture there is. The amount of people participating in something isn’t an indicator of it’s rightness or wrongness. What God says about it is what matters, and I’ve already shared what He says about it so since we cannot agree how about we just move on as I said to someone else. You asked my opinion and I wasn’t going to lie to you. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/102 "2002-08-25T20:19:21Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by gobear \* \*\*That should read > [@](#): > > You are, of course, quite wrong, but there’s not much point in showing you the prevalence of homosexuality in every age and every culture, nor would there be any point in showing the many examples of homosexuality among different species of animals because you wouldn’t listen. \*\* ☹ I respect you opinion tho I disagree. It doesn’t matter if homosexuality is practiced by every culture there is. The amount of people participating in something isn’t an indicator of it’s rightness or wrongness. What God says about it is what matters, and I’ve already shared what He says about it so since we cannot agree how about we just move on as I said to someone else. You asked my opinion and I wasn’t going to lie to you. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2002, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/103 "2002-08-25T20:25:40Z")
Sorry for the double post!! I’m having problems as navigation on this board appears to be very slow.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/104 "2002-08-25T20:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor \* > \*\*\ > We pray a variant of that every Sunday. Except for the part of “the holy Catholic Church,” I really don’t see how a fundamentalist can pick that apart. \*\* FWIW plenty of Lutherans use the same apostle’s creed as I learned in catechism, word for word. Remember “catholic” means universal but it’s taken on a connotation of _Roman_ Catholic for many people. I was actually a little suprised when I went with my folks to an ELCA church in Tucson where they substituted “Christian” for catholic in the creed. * * * “Apollo’s Creed?” whatchootalkin’aboutfool? ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2002, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/105 "2002-08-25T20:43:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **What God says about it is what matters, and I’ve already shared what He says about it…** No, you arrogant fundie, you shared, and only shared, **what you_THINK_ he says about it**. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/106 "2002-08-25T20:59:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*The one thing you can say about “homosexuality is a choice” is this: the orientation isn’t, the lifestyle is. To be utterly fair and put the best spin on the fundie viewpoint, just to follow it out… engaging in homosexual acts _is_ a choice, just like for us heteros it’s a choice whether to engage in heterosexual relations. > > Now, should one expect a person with a sexual attraction to a certain gender to abstain? Probably not. Still, many heterosexual people choose a life of celibacy. Homosexual people could do the same. I wouldn’t consider it fair that homosexuals are relegated to a life of mandated celibacy under that system of thought, whereas we heteros are allowed all the sex we want within the sacrament of marriage. > > Anyway, if you define homosexuality (or any sexuality for that matter) as the orientation, then it’s not a choice. If you define it as the behaviour pattern of engaging in sexual acts consistent with that orientation, then it is a choice. So I’d like to see a clarification on that point from **His4Ever** ’s perspective. \*\* Hmm, I’ll try. I’m sure it’s true that people have homosexual tendencies just as the heterosexual has sexual desire, etc. However, just as I believe that God says homosexuality is a sin, He also says that any heterosexual sex outside of marriage is a sin (fornication). I don’t necessarily think the homosexual tendency is sin, but it’s the actual carrying out of the tendency that’s the sin, just as it would be a sin for an unmarried heterosexual to engage in sex or a married heterosexual to engage in sex with anyone other than their spouse. Perhaps you’re right and the orientation may not be a choice, but the acting out of it IS a choice. My intent here was not to make anyone angry but I can’t lie either if I’m asked about something. Sorry, but I can’t. Just as God tells us to flee fornication, He tells us plainly (at least to me and many many others) that homosexuality is a sin. But as I don’t wish to cause a riot or anything, how about we all agree to disagree, okay? I just cannot agree that something is okay when I know God says different. So we can go on to something else. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/107 "2002-08-25T23:31:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Just as God tells us to flee fornication, He tells us plainly (at least to me and many many others) that homosexuality is a sin. But as I don’t wish to cause a riot or anything, how about we all agree to disagree, okay? I just cannot agree that something is okay when I know God says different. Yes, but **why**? In the end, this comes down to a cop-out answer. Haven’t you noticed by now that if you don’t give an answer other than “it’s in the Bible,” people don’t accept it? You can ascribe their rejection of one of God’s statements to a lack of grace on their part, but you haven’t really done a whole lot to help, have you? To the contrary, you’ve portrayed Christianity as a set of arbitrary rules that hates gays. Have you ever heard of the sin of scandal? According to the Catholics (take this with a grain of scandal, willya?), it’s “an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is led into grave offense.”\* It’s like putting a drink in front of a recovering alcoholic. While you’re not responsible for the damage that person does to himself, you ARE morally complicit for leading him into danger. Consider it a subset of “thou shalt not kill” if you REALLY need Biblical support for this thing. So as a premise, let’s assume God opposes homosexuality. As a Christian, your duty is to lead others to God. You are not responsible for another individual’s moral choices, but you _are_ responsible for the direction you push others in. Cain asked God, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” Under the Christian tradition, the answer tends to be “Hell, yes.” So…take a good look over the responses here. Your responses are **not** generating a lot of support for the Almighty’s proclamations here, because on a board where people are driven to find intellectual answers (and note that God **has** ingrained these people withan intellectual thirst), you’re providing a childish “God says so” with nothing else. Chances are, you’re secretly content that you know better, and it’s their own fault they don’t accept God as you do. Sorry, but people see through that, and all you’ve done is conveyed the impression that 1) Christians are arrogant, smug, and follow orders without question, and 2) therefore, it’s wrong to be a Christian. I’ll pray for you. Try again. \*Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 2284. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/108 "2002-08-25T23:40:52Z")
**His4ever** : I don’t think I’d be misrepresenting your position if I said that you believe that the Bible is the abscolute word of God and overrules any reasoning to the contrary (please correct me if this is not the case)… Would you mind explaining how you came to occupy this position of belief; in other words what is it exactly that caused you to believe that the Bible\* is the final authority? (\*in fact your interpretation thereof). ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/109 "2002-08-26T00:10:00Z")
First of all, {B]Guin\*\*, **Polycarp** , **Res** and some others–you are, in my eyes, examples of true Christians. You guys rock! 🙂 Second, **His** , IMHO means “in my humble opinion.” Third, I just happen to have a copy of the Bible right here. If you can honestly tell me that you keep the word of every law in Leviticus (like, not going to church for 33 days after you’ve had a baby boy, or 36 days after you’ve had a baby girl) or not allowing a man who is blind, lame, flat nosed, crookbacked, a dwarf, scurvilous, scabbed, or has a broken foot, hand or testicles (testicles?!) serve in church, then you can condemn homosexuality. Until then, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/110 "2002-08-26T00:10:20Z")
First of all, **Guin** , **Polycarp** , **Res** and some others–you are, in my eyes, examples of true Christians. You guys rock! 🙂 Second, **His** , IMHO means “in my humble opinion.” Third, I just happen to have a copy of the Bible right here. If you can honestly tell me that you keep the word of every law in Leviticus (like, not going to church for 33 days after you’ve had a baby boy, or 36 days after you’ve had a baby girl) or not allowing a man who is blind, lame, flat nosed, crookbacked, a dwarf, scurvilous, scabbed, or has a broken foot, hand or testicles (testicles?!) serve in church, then you can condemn homosexuality. Until then, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/111 "2002-08-26T00:10:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor \* > \*\*So…take a good look over the responses here. Your responses are not generating a lot of support for the Almighty’s proclamations here, because on a board where people are driven to find intellectual answers (and note that God has ingrained these people withan intellectual thirst), you’re providing a childish “God says so” with nothing else. Chances are, you’re secretly content that you know better, and it’s their own fault they don’t accept God as you do. Sorry, but people see through that, and all you’ve done is conveyed the impression that 1) Christians are arrogant, smug, and follow orders without question, and 2) therefore, it’s wrong to be a Christian. \*\* Which is the problem with Chick Tracts to begin with. I wonder how many people have been driven away from Christ because of reading a Chick Tract? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/112 "2002-08-26T00:23:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor \* > **…and note that God has ingrained these people withan intellectual thirst…** God doesn’t make people intellectual, anyway it’s not a sin to be intellectual, only to carry out intellectual _acts_. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/113 "2002-08-26T00:57:09Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor_ > (take this with a grain of scandal, willya?) Dammit. Most of you probably figured out that I meant “grain of salt.” For the rest of you–well…that’s what I meant. “Freudian slip”: [N.] When you say one thing when you’re thinking of a mother. --Cliff Claven ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/114 "2002-08-26T02:27:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Lao \* > \*\*Which is the problem with Chick Tracts to begin with. I wonder how many people have been driven away from Christ because of reading a Chick Tract? \*\* Probably very few. Those smart enough to recognize Chick for the scab-like postule on the posterior of humanity that he is, are likely smart enough to also recognize that Christianity is nothing like anything espoused by Chick-ster, fundie or other cultist. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/115 "2002-08-26T02:28:38Z")
Pardon the bad grammar in the last post. Stupid-no-edit-feature. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/116 "2002-08-26T14:40:14Z")
Where you say that we only need to believe in Christ, I offer this: > [@](#): > > For when men have once been enlightened and have tasted the heavenly gift and become sharers in the Holy Spirit, when they have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to make them repent again, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt. Ground which drinks in the rain falling on it again and again, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whom it is cultivated, receives the blessing of God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless; it is soon cursed, and finally is burned. > _Hebrews 6:4-8_ Thanks for the Scriptural Cheat Sheet, peeps! > [@](#): > > My brothers, what good is it to profess faith without practicing it? Such faith has no power to save one, has it? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and no food for the day, and you say to them, “Goodbye and good luck! Keep warm and well fed,” but do not meet their bodily needs, what good is that? So it is with faith that does nothing in practice. It is thoroughly lifeless. > To such a person one mighty say, “You have faith and I have works-is that it?” Show me your faith without works and I will show you the faith that underlies my works! Do you believe that God is one? You are quite right. The demons believe that, and shudder. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that without works faith is idle? Was not our father Abraham justified by his works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? There you see proof that faith was both assisting his works and implemented by his works. You also see how the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as justice”; for this he received the title “God’s friend.” > You must perceive that a person is justified by his works and not by faith alone. Rahab the harlot will illustrate the point. Was she not justified by her works when she harbored the messengers and sent them out by a different route? Be assured, then, that faith without works is dead as a body without breath. > _James 2:14-26_ ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/117 "2002-08-26T16:42:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **DocCathode** _ > > If God really hated gays, He would not have given us Esprix. The love and joy that we see in his posts is the true Word Of God(copyright, patent pending, accept no substitutes.). Well isn’t that the nicest thing anyone’s ever said to me! 🙂 Bless yer socks off! Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/118 "2002-08-26T16:53:05Z")
And may I also add that no matter what religious beliefs they hold, many from perhaps the “gay community” of the SDMB are people I would consider true friends and in their words and actions, I see the spirit of Christ? (Whatsoever you do to the least of my people…) So you see? We are all the least of his people, therefore, we are all a part of each other? No matter what? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/119 "2002-08-26T16:54:53Z")
I believe that would be in Revelations 22:22 “And God said, Let there be Esprix.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069/120 "2002-08-26T17:00:49Z")
And there was Esprix, and he was _fabulous._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welcoming-his4ever-our-first-actual-chick-chick/125069.md?page=7)