# Welfare,,,grrrrrr **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 19, 2000, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619 "2000-01-19T17:03:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![StrTrkr777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@StrTrkr777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StrTrkr777)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2000, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/41 "2000-01-21T15:37:00Z")
Handy, I am sure the majority of people on welfare are not college educated nor in the circumstances you indicated. I know some people get into rough spots, and for them I have no problem with welfare. But there are many who just live off of it. Because I worked hard and waited to have children, I am now in a position that my wife can stay home and raise our daughter. If my wife were not around, I could afford to keep my job and put her in day care. Why would I have to be on welfare and not work at all. I do not understand your logic. Jeffery ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2000, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/42 "2000-01-21T16:17:00Z")
Opacat sez: > [@](#): > > I never claimed to know your situation. Then says in reference to $150.00: > [@](#): > > you probably spend that in one night out at dinner with friends! I say: I am raising a family of four and how I spend my hard earned wages is always critical to my situation so apparently you DO think you know it. How the hell do you know how I spend my money? Let me answer that, you don’t have a fucking clue. (Hint) If you can’t remember what you typed then go back and read it. Oh and since you decided in your first reply post to lower this thread down to four letter word personal insults. Fuck you too! And since you are probably anal retentive enough to need the last word on this please do it in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2000, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/43 "2000-01-21T17:03:00Z")
StrTrkr777, not in california.In California, A mother has to apply for work when the baby is 2 months old. Eventually, they have to work for more & more of their govt funds. Figure 2 years or something max. Even if the butthead father doesn’t pay child support. You’d be surprised how many don’t pay child support. The kid I mentor, I found his father’s business on the net, takes in about 1.5M bucks a year. He claims to make $760/month in LA. Finally paid his first child support when the kid was 10. $160.00 a month. wow. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2000, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/44 "2000-01-21T17:43:00Z")
“Well, yes, except that the mom is probably also getting Section 8 rental assistance for housing, and don’t EVEN get me started on that!” Why would you want Section 8? Anyway, Melin, there is a waiting list, like 5000 people in my county. About a five year wait. Although I just saw a newspaper ad the other day saying they were taking new applications. Hmmm. Anyway, I can see the point of the case you mentioned. I wasn’t thinking of people who have rich folks to back them up all the time. Did you know that if a person is recently blinded and they take a job to afford a reader/tutor that counts as income & the gov’t wants their share of it. It should be under ‘uncovered medical costs,’ but they don’t do it that way. ---
**Author:** ![PaulYeah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e36b37/32.png) [@PaulYeah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulYeah)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2000, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/45 "2000-01-22T06:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I know a couple who had triplets. They got food stamps to help them out. They had a little system: they put a little aside from their paychecks and once a week the triplets would go to Grandma’s and they’d spend the evening alone. They would buy steaks and a bottle of wine and have a romantic dinner. > > One day they did their grocery shopping and used the food stamps, but at the same time they bought the steaks and wine for their time alone. They used their own money for those (they rang it up as separate transactions), but someone in line yelled at them for spending their stamps on wine and filet mignon. They tried to explain that they were paying for it and why they were doing it but the man wouldn’t listen. So they decided the hell with him, THEY knew what the truth was. I liked their attitude. Did he think that because they had assistance that they couldn’t treat themselves once in a while? Maybe they could afford steak and wine without food stamps, but as long as we taxpayers are picking up the tab, shouldn’t they should be **saving** that money so they can get themselves off of government assistance? PaulYeah ===================== “Yeah, yeah, I know Paul. Paul? Yeah.” Rev-co - The Revolting Cocks ---
**Author:** ![Bucky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Bucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bucky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2000, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/46 "2000-01-22T06:26:00Z")
aha, if you don’t want to spend 10 grand a year on your kid’s college educations, consider having them go to community colleges instead. At the schools where I teach, the yearly cost of tuition and books is under 3 grand. I don’t teach any worse now than when I was at Cornell (I’m probably much better). It’s a bargain and a half. I agree with handy on corporate welfare. here’s an example–we GAVE mcDonalds millions last year to do advertising overseas. Let’s eliminate this kind of boondoggle before we worry too much over some dude buying smokes. (I know, there are abuses, but the abuse tends to lean toward the fatcats, not the smoking cats). Bucky * * * Oh, well. We can always make more killbots. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2000, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/47 "2000-01-22T00:57:00Z")
Melin, section 8 is great. An old leader of it here once said in the paper that they make more money from sec 8 than any other program. They made a few million from it & bought themself a new building to work in. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2000, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/48 "2000-01-22T01:10:00Z")
Bucky: > [@](#): > > I agree with handy on corporate welfare. here’s an example–we GAVE mcDonalds millions last year to do advertising overseas. Let’s eliminate this kind of boondoggle before we worry too much over some dude buying smokes. Source, reference, or cite? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2000, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/49 "2000-01-22T02:20:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Then says in reference to $150.00: > quote: > you probably spend that in one night out at dinner with friends! > I say: > I am raising a family of four and how I spend my hard earned wages is always critical to my > situation so apparently you DO think you know it. How the hell do you know how I spend my money? Let me answer that, you don’t have a fucking clue.(Hint) If you can’t remember what you typed then go back and read it. Those poor kids. Anyway, I don’t think that what I said implies I know your situation, it was totally speculative and didn’t actually refer to YOU in particular but to people like you who complain all the fucking time about other people. I have no use for people like you who can do nothing but look down on others. I am very sorry to hear that you have procreated and can only hope that those poor kids have other influences in their lives and don’t have to be subjected to your thick head as a role model too often. * * * – Teeming Millions: [http://fathom.org/teemingmillions](http://fathom.org/teemingmillions) “Meat flaps, yellow!” - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat O p a l C a t [www.opalcat.com](http://www.opalcat.com) ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2000, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/50 "2000-01-22T16:40:00Z")
Time Magazine quote 1998: “And it rewards them handsomely. The Federal Government alone shells out $125 billion a year in corporate welfare, this in the midst of one of the more robust economic periods in the nation’s history. Indeed, thus far in the 1990s, corporate profits have totaled $4.5 trillion–a sum equal to the cumulative paychecks of 50 million working Americans who earned less than $25,000 a year, for those eight years.” ``` SPECIAL REPORT/CORPORATE WELFARE NOVEMBER 9, 1998 VOL. 152 NO. 19 ``` Ref: [http://www.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/1998/dom/981109/cover1.html](http://www.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/1998/dom/981109/cover1.html) ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2000, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/51 "2000-01-22T16:46:00Z")
There is also a book that states: "Read about some real welfare cheats: ``` The savings and loan bailout--$32 billion every year for 30 years Agribusiness subsidies--$18 billion a year Tax avoidance by transnationals--$12 billion a year Tax-free municipal bonds--$9.1 billion a year Insurance loopholes--$7.2 billion a year Nuclear subsidies--$7.1 billion a year " ``` E | BOOKS | AUDIO BOOKS | INTERVIEWS | SUBSCRIPTIONS | E-CARDS ``` THE REAL STORY SERIES from Odonian Press Take the Rich Off Welfare by Mark Zepezauer & Arthur Naiman ``` ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2000, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/52 "2000-01-22T16:53:00Z")
Handy, from the same article: > [@](#): > > While corporate welfare has attracted critics from both the left and the right, there is no uniform definition. By TIME’s definition, it is this: any action by local, state or federal government that gives a corporation or an entire industry a benefit not offered to others. It can be an outright subsidy, a grant, real estate, a low-interest loan or a government service. It can also be a tax break–a credit, exemption, deferral or deduction, or a tax rate lower than the one others pay. Assuming by your reference that you accept this definition, I suggest that it is misleading. For example: let us suppose that Bricker, Inc., has a choice of building our new World HQ in Handystown or Thriftsburg. The town council of Handysburg writes me a nice letter extolling the virtues of the town, while the council at Thriftsburg, believing that my corporate presence will create direct jobs, ancillary employment, and strengthen their tax base, writes me a nice letter offering to forgo water and sewer tax if I choose their fine city. This is, I believe, the essence of what Time is describing as “corporate welfare.” I contend that unlike more traditional welfare, it is an effort to provide a two-way economic benefit. Would you expect me to turn down Thriftysburg’s offer? I am a corporation, with a duty to my stockholders to guard their investment and make money for them. Similarly, if Thriftysburg is right in their analysis, they too will profit with more jobs, a bigger tax base, and ancillary development. Unlike standard welfare, this “corporate welfare” has quantifiable economic benefits in both directions. I think that the “welfare” part of the definition is a little misleading, then, as it calls to mind the ‘something for nothing’ approach of individual welfare. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![SqrlCub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SqrlCub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SqrlCub)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2000, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/53 "2000-01-24T15:15:00Z")
There are programs within welfare to allow the people to receive an education. The main one is called JTPA. For a comprehensive scholarship search (need based, non-need based, academic, etc) you can look on the net at [http://www.finaid.org/scholarships/](http://www.finaid.org/scholarships/) or [http://www.fastweb.com/ib/finaid-23f](http://www.fastweb.com/ib/finaid-23f) . It is not up to the social service worker to provide the latter, but the JTPA service should be brought up assuming that the person has little or no education. HUGS! Sqrl * * * Gasoline: As an accompaniement to cereal it made a refreshing change. Glen Baxter ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2000, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/54 "2000-01-24T16:46:00Z")
Bricker, I don’t agee with your definition of ‘welfare’ but then you’d expect no less than that…Here is the correct, IE dictionary, def: 1wel•fare "wel-'far, -'fer\ noun [ME, fr. the phrase wel faren to fare well] (14c) 1 : the state of doing well esp. in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity Thus, by your example, you would be taking corporate welfare in order to do well? ---
**Author:** ![Rainbowcsr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Rainbowcsr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rainbowcsr)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/55 "2000-01-25T17:52:00Z")
Damn! I wish I could remember the name of the company, but it deals in pork products and is a major player in the industry. Anyhow, it looks around for a small town which needs revenue, makes a glorious deal with them to install a pork processing plant, gets all forms of tax cuts and land deals and explains about how employment will soar. They build the plant, often with the small city picking up a large portion of the tab, counting on returns from increased employment and taxes to cover this. The plant opens and promptly the Nice Guy attitude stops. They do hire some locals, but very few and import immigrant labor at minimum wages or below. This usually creates a ghetto in the small town and crime starts to go up because the plant fires anyone who dares bitch about the low pay and poor working conditions. Within months, the organic waste of the plant piles up and starts polluting the area. The stench of the rotting material infests the town, which promptly starts protesting to be met by company lawyers from the MAIN OFFICE, who tie things up. Trucks haul away rotting pork carcasses but improperly dump them and cause health problems. When things get real bad, the company turns to the federal government, manages to obtain corporate welfare, shuts down the local operation and moves on in search of other suckers actually having made a couple of million in profit. Now, the small city has to contend with an empty plant, polluted lands, a stranded, imported population, unpaid tax loans on the land and bills for THEIR share of building the thing in the first place plus they get to clean up the still rotting mess! The land and factory go back to them, and the federal government requires that THEY clean up the mess and the main company escapes untouched and the city is actually worse off than before. This company does this all of the time! It rides corporate welfare and makes billions! They even had a documentary on it on television one time, which doesn’t seem to have slowed it down any. Big Business is expert at obtaining welfare. Go figure! Who would have guessed it? Astonishing, is it not, how they still turn major profits? * * * What? Me worry?’ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2000, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/56 "2000-01-25T19:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by handy: > \*\* > Bricker, I don’t agee with your definition of ‘welfare’ but then you’d expect no less than that…\*\* Heh. I advanced no definition for welfare myself, but merely quoted Time magazine’s overbroad and all-inclusive definition. I quoted Time because another poster had provided a link to a Time magazine article that mentioned “corporate welfare.” That said, you quoted definition #1, but the obvious context of this discussion is definition #2 (at least in Merriam-Webster’s on-line dictionary): > [@](#): > > 2 a : aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need b : an agency or program through which such aid is distributed “Corporate welfare” may thus reasonably be understood to mean, “aid in the form of money or necessities for those corporations\*\* in need.” I know that a corporation “in need” is a rather bizarre concept, but it’s undeniable that some aid exists for the benefit of corporations. My whole point was that this aid is not necessarily anathema to all good and righteous people; rather, that under some circumstances, it may be a wise choice for both corporation and government. I dislike the term ‘welfare’ in this context … but it’s not without some justification. I trust this clears that up. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2000, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/57 "2000-02-09T20:42:00Z")
## opalcat:Those poor kids. Anyway, I don’t think that what I said implies I know your situation, it was totally speculative and didn’t actually refer to YOU in particular but to people like you who complain all the fucking time about other people. I have no use for people like you who can do nothing but look down on others. I am very sorry to hear that you have procreated and can only hope that those poor kids have other influences in their lives and don’t have to be subjected to your thick head as a role model too often. Just the kind of answer I would expect from a depressed ex-titty dancer. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2000, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/58 "2000-02-09T22:37:00Z")
I’ve never been on welfare, and I hope never to be. I have accepted government benefits in the form of: Military compensation Student loans access to national parks access to national museums educational grants access to free information access to government funded arpanet infrastructure health care provided by government mandated workman’s compensation. etc. And if any of you think that gives you the right to determine how I spend my money, then I suggest you examine more carefully how many ways government funded programs have touched your own life. As a society we have decided that we do not want to let people starve. That does not give us any added authority to dictate actions to the poor. We are not buying control of their lives; we are giving them assistance. It is called welfare, not indentured servitude. * * * - The best lack all conviction The worst are full of passionate intensity. \* ---
**Author:** ![Sentinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sentinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sentinel)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2000, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/59 "2000-02-10T12:47:00Z")
**aha** So, what is wrong with ex-titty dancers? Some of the finest women I have known have been topless dancers and what the fuck has depression got to do with it? It doesn’t make her stupid. Since you chose to attack a condition of hers which she cannot not control, I would consider you a real low life. * * * ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2000, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619/60 "2000-02-10T21:26:00Z")
Sentinel: Since you chose to attack a condition of hers which she cannot not control, I would consider you a real low life. You obviously haven’t taken the time to read the complete thread and realize that opalcat completely blindsided me with personal four letter insults. Why? because she didn’t agree with my original post. I don’t know why she couldn’t have just disagreed with me instead of stooping to “fuck you” type insults except that maybe she craves the attention she is getting. At any rate I don’t have the time nor inclination to try and psychoanalize everyone I meet on this board. So this will be the end of this thread for me I don’t intend to waste anymore time on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welfare-grrrrrr/13619.md?page=2)