# Well at least our VP has a big pair. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437 "2014-09-04T03:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/41 "2014-09-04T15:56:55Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Put politics aside. It’s all politics. Trying to remove politics from the complexities of the Middle East (or any region of the world) is silly and self-defeating. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/42 "2014-09-04T16:00:58Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I totally agree. There’s plenty of shame to spread around. Everyone is sitting around with their thumb up their ass while ISIS gets stronger and stronger. We absolutely need to come together. Put politics aside. Congress and the President should be united in formulating a solution to this global problem. What “solution” do you want us to formulate? A ground war is not going to happen - the American people are not willing to tolerate an effort of the size and scale necessary to fully and permanently secure Iraq, and the UN would never approve of such an action anyway. Airstrikes can only do so much. There’s no guarantee that arms deliveries won’t just end up in the hands of different extremists. All you seem to be doing is spouting the same vague old talking points about how Obama needs to “show leadership” and “put politics aside” as if only the Republican party and the rest of the world would instantly fall in line if only he stated his point in firm enough language, ignoring the reality that there are plenty of people who stand ready to criticize Obama and say he’s wrong _no matter what solution he offers._ ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/43 "2014-09-04T16:01:14Z")
There isn’t a straight forward solution. We had an opportunity back in 2007 to setup a gov (not elect, it had to be formed and created by us) that included Sunnis and Shiites. General Petraeus had reached out the the Sunni tribes and they aided us in fighting Al Qaeda. We secured an important Sunni region in Iraq. A lot of promises were made and broken by the US. A lot of those Sunni leaders were let down. I suspect some of them are in ISIS today. There’s no clean and nice way of dealing with this. Trying to go in and broker a democracy in that region was so incredibly naive. That’s a legacy left to us by G. Bush. It’s broke now and there’s no fix. I wish we could just ignore the region. Let them kill and rape each other. But, some of those ISIS members are Americans and they will be bringing the battle home to America. Some will be arrested and stopped. Others will get back here and I dread what they will do. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/44 "2014-09-04T16:05:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m at a loss to explain why our government is so fractured. We can’t even unite over a common enemy? \ I don’t know what else to say. It used to be that politics ended at the shoreline, but Republicans hate Obama a whole lot more than they love the US. What’s the rush? Let’s assess the threat, then figure out what can be done about it, what it might accomplish, what it won’t accomplish, what are the risks, who should do it, etc. What’s to fear? That handfuls of Americans are going to come back and wreck havoc? Perhaps we just watch them when and if they return to the US. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/45 "2014-09-04T16:12:26Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I feel that the President’s leadership at times of a tragedy or crises supersedes politics. Beheading those two Americans and sneering at our leaders is a national embarrassment. I suspect our great nation will somehow manage to survive the embarrassment. [I think aceplace57 wants a POTUS who’s a bit more like this.](http://vimeo.com/82074066) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/46 "2014-09-04T16:18:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There isn’t a straight forward solution. We had an opportunity back in 2007 to setup a gov (not elect, it had to be formed and created by us) that included Sunnis and Shiites. General Petraeus had reached out the the Sunni tribes and they aided us in fighting Al Qaeda. We secured an important Sunni region in Iraq. A lot of promises were made and broken by the US. A lot of those Sunni leaders were let down. I suspect some of them are in ISIS today. I’m not at all convinced that such a government would have been anything other than a mess. > [@](#): > > There’s no clean and nice way of dealing with this. Trying to go in and broker a democracy in that region was so incredibly naive. That’s a legacy left to us by G. Bush. It’s broke now and there’s no fix. Sounds like a good reason to stay out. > [@](#): > > I wish we could just ignore the region. Let them kill and rape each other. But, some of those ISIS members are Americans and they will be bringing the battle home to America. Some will be arrested and stopped. Others will get back here and I dread what they will do. This is one of the same arguments used by Bush and Cheney. I seen no reason why it’s a better argument now. I don’t buy that we have to fight them there so we don’t fight them here – we lost more US lives fighting in Iraq than we did on 9/11. If we get in there again, we’ll probably lose more US lives than we would from any risk of attacks at home. Further, _ISIS wants us to invade_. Let’s not do what our enemies want, for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/47 "2014-09-04T16:18:49Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There isn’t a straight forward solution. We had an opportunity back in 2007 to setup a gov (not elect, it had to be formed and created by us) that included Sunnis and Shiites. That did happen, but al-Maliki took power from his cohorts and gradually took more dictatorial control for himself and favored the Shia. What happened next will amaze you. > [@](#): > > There’s no clean and nice way of dealing with this. Trying to go in and broker a democracy in that region was so incredibly naive. That’s a legacy left to us by G. Bush. It’s broke now and there’s no fix. So what do you think should happen? The US goes in there with some allies, kicks ISIS’ butt, and then… ? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/48 "2014-09-04T16:22:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There isn’t a straight forward solution. We had an opportunity back in 2007 to setup a gov (not elect, it had to be formed and created by us) that included Sunnis and Shiites. General Petraeus had reached out the the Sunni tribes and they aided us in fighting Al Qaeda. We secured an important Sunni region in Iraq. A lot of promises were made and broken by the US. A lot of those Sunni leaders were let down. I suspect some of them are in ISIS today. > > There’s no clean and nice way of dealing with this. Trying to go in and broker a democracy in that region was so incredibly naive. That’s a legacy left to us by G. Bush. \*\* It’s broke now and there’s no fix.\*\* \ Nevertheless, this is somehow Obama’s fault because “show leadership!”? Is this OP about anything other than an unwillingness to accept that the world is a complicated place and that not all problems are trivial or have a solution that ends up with the American hero blowing up the enemy in his escape plane at the end of the 2 hour matinee? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/49 "2014-09-04T16:23:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Nevertheless, this is somehow Obama’s fault because “show leadership!”? He should talk real tough cause it’ll make us feel better about ourselves! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/50 "2014-09-04T16:25:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post > I’m at a loss to explain why our government is so fractured. We can’t even unite over a common enemy? \ I don’t know what else to say. Are you uniting with our president? > [@](#): > > Obama has always been so detached. It’s unsettling not to have strong leadership. Maybe he did instruct Biden to express anger at the situation. I wanted to hear that same anger and outrage in my President too. Strong Leadership sometimes appears as being “detached.” Personally, I sleep much better knowing Obama is at the helm. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/51 "2014-09-04T16:34:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He should talk real tough cause it’ll make us feel better about ourselves! That’s the ticket. The president doesn’t have time for things like hobbies, or exercise, or family obligations, or sleep. The sole duty of the president is to sit upright at the Resolute Desk 24 hours a day, in a state of catlike readiness, prepared to leap up the moment a crisis emerges so he can Show Leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/52 "2014-09-04T16:35:19Z")
I’m not convinced populist “Grr, down with our enemies!” rhetoric is particularly brave. It seems… easy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/53 "2014-09-04T16:38:09Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Strong Leadership sometimes appears as being “detached.” For example, it’s better to wait and put together a comprehensive solution and look “detached” instead of blundering ahead without a plan because people are frantically demanding action - any action, without a clue of the details or the consequences. > [@Smapti](#): > > That’s the ticket. The president doesn’t have time for things like hobbies, or exercise, or family obligations, or sleep. The sole duty of the president is to sit upright at the Resolute Desk 24 hours a day, in a state of catlike readiness, prepared to leap up the moment a crisis emerges so he can Show Leadership. Now we’re talking! ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/54 "2014-09-04T16:41:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Everybody knows it except Americans who want to believe the US is near-omnipotent. > > It’s the Middle East, and there are almost never good and simple solutions to problems in the Middle East. Assad is horrible, which is why the US looked for ways to support the opposition to him. ISIS is part of that opposition, and they’re horrible, too. Oh, and Al-Maliki is also horrible. Where do you see a good answer to all of this? I feel like if the media just stopped reporting on the Middle East, then everything would just work itself out. Naive, sure, but really, that region gets far too much publicity. It really seems to feed on all that attention. Having spent some time there, I can say that American media most definitely blows things out of proportion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/55 "2014-09-04T16:42:02Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > I feel like if the media just stopped reporting on the Middle East, then everything would just work itself out. Naive, sure, but really, that region gets far too much publicity. It really seems to feed on all that attention. > > Having spent some time there, I can say that American media most definitely blows things out of proportion. But that’s where Jesus was born! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/56 "2014-09-04T16:47:46Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > I feel like if the media just stopped reporting on the Middle East, then everything would just work itself out. It wouldn’t, as there were all sorts of wars in the region long before the modern media existed. This is so silly it might even top “we will follow them to the gates of hell until they are brought to justice,” which raises some real legal and theological questions. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/57 "2014-09-04T16:59:55Z")
There’s probably downsides to letting terrorists set the president’s schedule. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/58 "2014-09-04T17:02:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > We had secure bases in Iraq and Afghanistan when Obama took office. We could have drawn down forces and kept them on base. Safely away from most attacks. There would be a few isolated incidents and some troops would be working with Iraqi forces to keep order. They would be at some risk. Much like it was in 2009 before we pulled out. Maybe you should read up on the [2008 Status of Forces Agreement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement) that set the terms of our withdrawal from Iraq. The short version: > [@](#): > > The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011. Are you saying we should have remained in Iraq whether the Iraqi government we created wanted us there or not, in violation of its sovereignty? (America - fuck, yeah! We don’t ask permission - we just go where we want!) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/59 "2014-09-04T17:07:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s the Middle East, and there are almost never good and simple solutions to problems in the Middle East. Assad is horrible, which is why the US looked for ways to support the opposition to him. ISIS is part of that opposition, and they’re horrible, too. Oh, and Al-Maliki is also horrible. Where do you see a good answer to all of this? Excellent summary. > [@Smapti](#): > > That’s the ticket. The president doesn’t have time for things like hobbies, or exercise, or family obligations, or sleep. The sole duty of the president is to sit upright at the Resolute Desk 24 hours a day, in a state of catlike readiness, prepared to leap up the moment a crisis emerges so he can Show Leadership. This cracked me up. Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/60 "2014-09-04T17:31:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s the ticket. The president doesn’t have time for things like hobbies, or exercise, or family obligations, or sleep. The sole duty of the president is to sit upright at the Resolute Desk 24 hours a day, in a state of catlike readiness, prepared to leap up the moment a crisis emerges so he can Show Leadership. …In an appropriately dark coloured suit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437.md?page=4)