# Well at least our VP has a big pair. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437 "2014-09-04T03:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/61 "2014-09-04T17:33:04Z")
I rally think that the OP is just responding to a style of talk from Biden that appeals to him personally. Others may have different reactions to Biden and Obama, based on their own personal emotional make-up. Me, I’m more scared by Obama’s coolness and _lack_ of emotion when he talks about “degrading” ISIS. I find that much more chilling and sends a very determined message. But that’s just my personal reaction, to a type of discourse that appeals to me personally. I don’t really see a difference in substance between the two. Personally, my opinion of Obama’s flintiness shifted dramatically when Osama was killed. That Obama could joke it up at the Press Dinner, needling Donald Trump about hard decisions and getting a big laugh, all the time knowing that by his orders, Osama was going to be killed in a few hours, and staking his presidency on it - that to me is far more intimidating than a bit of blustery talk from Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/62 "2014-09-04T18:01:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > …so the reporter would be alive if Obama golfed less? I’m afraid I don’t see the correlation. Obama does this sort of thing pretty often. He tends to have an air of aloofness, and frankly it’s not hard for people to get the impression that he really doesn’t care much about world events. I’ve never had much use for Joe Biden (who ever has?) but I must agree that _that_ is the tone our leaders should be striking. Pursue the bastards to the gates of Hell. They’re going to end up there anyway, so allow us to shorten their trip. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/63 "2014-09-04T18:04:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Agreed. Enough chit-chat. > > If the US really was the most powerful nation in the world, none of this would be happening right now. I say we increase the US sphere of influence in the following ways: > > 1. double the defense budget - hell, triple it if necessary > 2. cut all discretionary spending, like schools and medicaid and infrastructure > 3. raise taxes across the board > 4. conscript all the young men and women. > 5. warn all nations, friend of foe, “Our cause is just! If you’re not with us, you’re against us!” > 6. bomb the middle east and anyone opposed into parking lots, then build malls. It’s what America does best. > 7. PROFIT. [Sieg Hiel!](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sieg_Heil) 1. conscript all the young men and women ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/64 "2014-09-04T18:05:47Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Obama does this sort of thing pretty often. He tends to have an air of aloofness, and frankly it’s not hard for people to get the impression that he really doesn’t care much about world events. > > I’ve never had much use for Joe Biden (who ever has?) but I must agree that _that_ is the tone our leaders should be striking. Pursue the bastards to the gates of Hell. They’re going to end up there anyway, so allow us to shorten their trip. Yup. The terrorists the US is bombing won’t get scared unless the president says we’ll follow them into the afterlife or something. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/65 "2014-09-04T18:09:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > General Petraeus had reached out the the Sunni tribes and they aided us in fighting Al Qaeda. We secured an important Sunni region in Iraq. A lot of promises were made and broken by the US. A lot of those Sunni leaders were let down. I suspect some of them are in ISIS today. My comments from back in 2007 regarding the ‘Sunni Awakening’: To a certain extent I feel they are repeating the same mistake the British made in the 1920’s. It’s hardly an exact parallel, but it does make me shake my head a bit. The British deliberately elevated tribal leaders, making them into political figures that they hadn’t been under the Ottomans, while undermining the Ottoman-educated administrative classes. To the British, the tribal sheikhs were exemplars of the ‘Noble Savage’, corrupted by the venal influence of oriental despotism, which could only ape western ways in the most counterproductive manner possible. The elevation of pensioned chieftaincies at the expense of any centralizing, modernizing tendency, helped set the stage for the failure of Iraq as a state. Toby Dodge goes into this in some detail in Inventing Iraq. The American impulse is different from the quaint chauvinism of the early 20th century - more a matter of expediency or perhaps desperation - but I worry the results will be similar. First the disastrously overbroad “de-Baathification” drastically weakens Iraq’s administrative machinery and the disbanding of the army shatters any possibility of quickly reasserting central authority. Now the encouraging and enabling of tribal elements to organize into discrete armed bodies. The tribes are realities in Iraq, that’s true. It’s definitely necessary to deal with chieftains as societal intermediaries and intercessors. And it’s not like they were unarmed to start with, really. But validating their standing as independent, armed, political entities outside/parallel to the state? Bad news. Iraq has enough tendency towards balkanization from competing sectarian communities and rival parties. Now you’re adding yet another armed layer capable of striking out on their own and carving out turf. I have a hard time imagining these sheikhs meekly surrendering authority to the central government once ( if ) those annoying foreign elements are ejected. Sunni chieftains submitting to a government they perceive as Shi’a dominated? No - you’re replacing one immediate threat to central authority with another, far more rooted and popular one. That they could even become a source of armed resistance to the U.S. down the road is hardly inconceivable. I suppose you could argue that it’s just the cherry atop the sundae when you already have such pervasive militia influence in Iraq. But why add to a bad situation, unless you really are conceding it’s hopeless? Sad as it is too say, better the wholly unreliable, factionated Iraqi army take control in these areas if only for appearances sake. Tribal control means tribal autonomy and that has hardly worked out well in Afghanistan or ( these days ) Pakistan. * * * I was concerned then, I’m sure of it now - Petraeus screwed the pooch long-term with his tactics. Short-term fix for an immediate problem that just added to more long-term misery. Do you really think the Shi’a would have tolerated us “forming ( not electing )” a government for them? Fuck no. We would just have been in a reverse situation struggling with Shi’a factions southern Iraq. There were no good options in 2007 ( and Petraeus and company get some sympathy for being stuck in that situation ). I think a.) you are blaming Obama for issues beyond his control and that originated before his time and b.) you are guilty of believing there is any good options now or in 2007 for that matter. There isn’t and there weren’t. The invasion of Iraq was a horrible idea, undertaken for no good reasons, colossally mismanaged, with the absolutely shitty set of outcomes that many predicted. There is no rehabilitating this mess. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/66 "2014-09-04T18:10:13Z")
Who knew? Bluster was the weapon needed to eradicate radical extremism. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/67 "2014-09-04T18:10:16Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Personally, my opinion of Obama’s flintiness shifted dramatically when Osama was killed. That Obama could joke it up at the Press Dinner, needling Donald Trump about hard decisions and getting a big laugh, all the time knowing that by his orders, Osama was going to be killed in a few hours, and staking his presidency on it - that to me is far more intimidating than a bit of blustery talk from Biden. Something along the lines of “Speak softly, but carry a big stick!” type thing. Hmm, what republican POTUS supported that theory? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/68 "2014-09-04T18:12:19Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Obama does this sort of thing pretty often. He tends to have an air of aloofness, and frankly it’s not hard for people to get the impression that he really doesn’t care much about world events. Which, as pointed out above, is a silly impression for people to make. [Here’s a blog posting](http://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/08/05/barack-obama-and-golf-a-skeptical-analysis/) by a guy who crunched the numbers and found that Obama plays much less golf than several other well-liked presidents, and certainly not in any degree where his game would be a hinderance to the job. The only people complaining that Obama plays too much golf are the same political haymakers who would criticize Obama no matter what he does. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/69 "2014-09-04T18:15:25Z")
The US has a higher military budget than any other country by far. It has bases all over the world and has been meddling in the politics of sovereign nations for decades. This is the result. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/70 "2014-09-04T18:48:45Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I’ve never had much use for Joe Biden (who ever has?) but I must agree that _that_ is the tone our leaders should be striking. Pursue the bastards to the gates of Hell. They’re going to end up there anyway, so allow us to shorten their trip. So you\* want\* the American president to sound like an desperate for attention, ill tempered, overly dramatic [fearless leader](https://www.google.com/search?q=image+of+kim+jong+un&espv=2&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=0LMIVNCFJIyPyATG7IC4Dg&ved=0CCIQsAQ&biw=793&bih=318)? Okay then. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/71 "2014-09-04T18:54:22Z")
By the way, when I think about a rhetorical big pair … a politician who talks tough and sends other people to fight and die is _not_ the first thing that comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/72 "2014-09-04T19:16:30Z")
A ISIS defector is giving a insider perspective. > **[Inside the mind of an ISIS fighter | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/04/world/meast/isis-inside-look/index.html?hpt=hp_c2)** > > A former ISIS fighter tells CNN what the terror group’s ultimate goal is – and what he thinks of Westerners joining the ranks. The US may need to follow David Cameron’s lead and ban Americans from returning after joining these radical groups. But, that would require Obama and Congress to agree to do something. > [@](#): > > Thousands of foreign fighters are estimated to have joined ISIS. And the ex-ISIS militant said these foreigners could carry out attacks when they go home, but security measures in those countries could make it difficult – at least for now. > > “Since Western fighters joined ISIS, they consider their home country as infidels,” he said. “If they have a chance, they will carry out attacks.” > > The United Kingdom is already on high alert, raising its terror threat level from “substantial” to “severe” on Friday. Prime Minister David Cameron has proposed a radical new measure to ban Britons from coming home once they join jihadi ranks abroad. > > And the United States got a harsh reminder of ISIS’ reach when Douglas McAuthur McCain, a 33-year-old from the Midwest, became the first known American to be killed while fighting for ISIS. > > U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has called ISIS “beyond just a terrorist group.” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/73 "2014-09-04T19:23:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The US may need to follow David Cameron’s lead and ban Americans from returning after joining these radical groups. But, that would require Obama and Congress to agree to do something. Pretty sure the US authorities are [already in agreement](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/11/kennedy-airport-arrest/13889915/) about how to deal with these guys. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/74 "2014-09-04T19:28:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Pretty sure the US authorities are [already in agreement](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/11/kennedy-airport-arrest/13889915/) about how to deal with these guys. Right. Given the scope of the terrorist watch list, I’d be surprised if any of those guys could move around the US if they wanted to come back - and we don’t know that they do. [US intelligence says ISIS is not planning to attack the country.](http://complex.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/09/03/counterterrorism_chief_says_islamic_state_is_not_planning_an_attack_on_america?utm_content=bufferc0b38&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/75 "2014-09-04T22:01:48Z")
If only countries has an “immigration” control at international airports where they could look at some kind of document with the countries you have recently visited and ask questions about what you were doing there! ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/76 "2014-09-04T22:30:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That’s true. But at least someone in the administration showed some backbone. Like the cops in Ferguson showed some backbone. And I don’t mean that in a good way: I don’t think that having Bush foreign policy made the USA or the world a better place to live in, and I don’t think white Americans are generally better off because blacks get shot. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/77 "2014-09-04T22:35:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Which, as pointed out above, is a silly impression for people to make. [Here’s a blog posting](http://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/08/05/barack-obama-and-golf-a-skeptical-analysis/) by a guy who crunched the numbers and found that Obama plays much less golf than several other well-liked presidents, and certainly not in any degree where his game would be a hinderance to the job. The only people complaining that Obama plays too much golf are the same political haymakers who would criticize Obama no matter what he does. And here’s a quote from that blog: “George W. Bush, 2001-2009: Bush 43 played frequently before becoming president, often with his father. But he had golfed only 24 rounds when he publicly gave up the game, 34 months into his presidency, as a gesture of support for soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.” Now contrast that to Obama who rushed to the links following his news brief regarding the beheading of James Foley. It’s not that Biden has a big pair, they just look big compared to his golf partner. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/78 "2014-09-04T23:07:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And here’s a quote from that blog: > > “George W. Bush, 2001-2009: Bush 43 played frequently before becoming president, often with his father. But he had golfed only 24 rounds when he publicly gave up the game, 34 months into his presidency, as a gesture of support for soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.” It was a stupid and pathetic gesture. Giving up golf is not comparable to the sacrifices of service men and women, and it was insulting for him to imply that it was. And Presidents need r&r, just like everyone else. The President’s golf game is not a legitimate or worthy topic of criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/79 "2014-09-04T23:38:24Z")
Presidents have to use some discretion when displaying toughness. Obama does it when necessary and when it might actually help. If his words could cause more harm than good, what’s point. “Bring it on” and “Mission Accomplished” probably got more Americans killed than were helped. Anyway, here’s an example of Obama being tough: > **[Obama Just Made the Ultimate Commitment to Eastern Europe](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/09/obama-commitment-eastern-europe-russia-nato/379581/)** > > No U.S. president since Reagan has used such forceful language against Russia. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437/80 "2014-09-04T23:45:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It was a stupid and pathetic gesture. Giving up golf is not comparable to the sacrifices of service men and women, and it was insulting for him to imply that it was. [Maybe he got the idea from Poppy ?](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5130922/ns/politics-howard_mortman/t/gas-hog-boat-doesnt-fit-kerrys-image/#.VAj5HMI7uM4) > [@](#): > > In August 1990, during America’s other major deployment to the Persian Gulf, then-President Bush asked Americans to conserve energy. Midway through his 25-day vacation in Maine, a reporter asked President Bush if conserving energy included Fidelity, his recreational speedboat. Bush answered by urging Americans to keep their vacation plans, saying, "I’m going to keep using my boat, and I hope the rest of America will prudently recreate. " [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-at-least-our-vp-has-a-big-pair/697437.md?page=5)