# Well dang. If you didn't think Scott Adams was a piece of shit before, just look at him now! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 24, 2023, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277 "2023-02-24T06:16:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/161 "2023-02-27T00:37:58Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’m sure there are plenty of details that are different, and enforcement is probably different, but almost everything you said could be said of the US as well. (Except that I’m not sure that all public schools are subject to information requests, that I’m not certain of. But where I work, for state government, what you described about information requests is exactly what we go through too.) In the US, you most emphatically can not simply request information about a student’s grades. Any school employee that released a student’s grades without the student or their guardian going through the proper channels to give permission would be in a world of trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/162 "2023-02-27T00:43:46Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > What would your objection be based on, other than a sense of unfairness because participation/banning is supposed to be based on a set of social and ethical norms concerning speech? You’re describing a privilege, not a right. When a privilege is based on the presumption that a person earned it (in this case, by following the rules), then of course you’ll feel cheated if the privilege is unfairly revoked. But then again, there is also the knowledge that a privilege can always be taken away on a whim, fairly or not. That’s the difference between s privilege and a right. > [@Chronos](#): > > In the US, you most emphatically can not simply request information about a student’s grades. I missed that bit, but I think that gets back to classification. Where I work, not all information is eligible for release upon demand. We have classifications of data that can be given out. For example, something with medical information or social security numbers can’t be given out. A student’s grades might fall under the classification of sensitive info and be exempt under that provision. It might just be a matter of a difference between what a jurisdiction considers eligible for public knowledge, but there is still a philosophy that the government should be transparent when appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/163 "2023-02-27T00:53:57Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You’re describing a privilege, not a right. When a privilege is based on the presumption that a person earned it (in this case, by following the rules), then of course you’ll feel cheated if the privilege is unfairly revoked. So freedom of movement is privilege, not a right? Voting is a privilege, not a right? Because the government can certainly take those things away if you don’t follow the rules. You’ll have to define what difference you think there is between “privilege” and “right” more clearly, and in a way that is not circular in the sense of just saying that something bestowed by a private entity is by definition a privilege. > [@Atamasama](#): > > But then again, there is also the knowledge that a privilege can always be taken away on a whim, fairly or not. Where does any feeling of unfairness derive from, if it’s not a sense that your _right_ to do something has been taken away? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/164 "2023-02-27T01:12:28Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Of course they do. Everyone who isn’t banned has the right to post here. No one has a right to post here. Posting is a privilege which may be revoked at the sole discretion of the administration of the Straight Dope. A privilege is NOT the same as a right. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/165 "2023-02-27T01:22:42Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > A privilege is NOT the same as a right. Your capitalization implies that you confident that there is a clear distinction between these two things. Care to explain what exactly you think it is? I have the right to move around freely. If I break the law, the government may take away that right. I have the right to post on SDMB. If I break the rules, the SDMB may take away that right. If you want to call the second one a privilege, what exactly is the difference, other than the fact that the SDMB is obviously a private entity? And, as I have asked other posters, if you don’t think you have a right to post on the SDMB, can you explain why you would feel upset if you were banned from the SDMB on the whim of a mod with no good reason? Where would your indignation derive from, if it’s not a sense that you have a right? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/166 "2023-02-27T01:35:34Z")
A privilege is granted by a controlling authority. A right is secured by birth alone. An authority, such as our Constitution, does not grant rights, it protects human rights that pre-exist the Constitution, by limiting the power of government to compromise them. The privilege to post here is predicated on obeying rules. If that privilege is revoked without a violation of the rules, my indignation is not with the loss of a right, it is with the capricious or unjustified enforcement of the rules. But it is still the loss of a privilege, because I was not born with the right to post here. It was granted by the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/167 "2023-02-27T01:49:14Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Because the government can certainly take those things away if you don’t follow the rules. The key point is “if you don’t follow the rules”. Because that’s not the case here. You can be banned arbitrarily. Hopefully you **aren’t** , because that would be shitty, but it can happen. The government can’t take away your rights arbitrarily. Only if it has been proven that you violated some code, usually via some judicial process. When a government has the ability to arbitrarily take away rights, they are by definition no longer rights, or at least it can be said that your rights are being violated. That’s why we say that governments that incarcerate or even execute people without cause are guilty of human rights violations. And if that happens in the US, organizations like the ACLU get involved to reverse and remedy the situation. But the SDMB can ban you for no reason and face no official consequences. You can’t sue them or report them to the authorities. They took away a privilege and you aren’t fundamentally entitled to that privilege. They granted you the privilege when they allowed you to make an account, and can take it away at any time. Now, that doesn’t mean there can’t be consequences. Any action can bring consequences. People might quit the site in disgust. Someone might write a scathing article and harm its reputation. But there is no enforcement process to respond to arbitrary revoking of a privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/168 "2023-02-27T02:08:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > A privilege is granted by a controlling authority. A right is secured by birth alone. The usual term for something secured by birth alone is _natural rights_. So your position appears to be that there are no rights other than natural rights? And all you have discussed is the _origin_ of rights. If you prefer to call something a privilege rather than a right, what is the _functional_ difference? It seems to me that all I need to do to post on the SDMB is to be born. So I’m going to call it a right. But you want to call it a privilege. What does that disagreement mean _in practice_? Again, what exactly is the difference between these two situations: > [@Riemann](#): > > I have the right to move around freely. If I break the law, the government may take away that right. > > I have the right to post on SDMB. If I break the rules, the SDMB may take away that right. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/169 "2023-02-27T02:12:20Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > The government can’t take away your rights arbitrarily. Only if it has been proven that you violated some code, usually via some judicial process. But surely we all agree that the world is a better place if there is some kind of due process on the SDMB too. Not to the level of formality and complexity as the legal system, but _rights_ nevertheless deriving from social and ethical norms. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/170 "2023-02-27T02:16:15Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But surely we all agree that the world is a better place if there is some kind of due process on the SDMB too. Ideally, sure. Just as it’s not illegal to be an asshole (depending on **how** a person is an asshole) but it would be better if nobody was one. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/171 "2023-02-27T02:16:30Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > It seems to me that all I need to do to post on the SDMB is to be born. So I’m going to call it a right. Is there a distinction between a “right,” as you use the term, and “being able to do whatever I want?” Do I have the right to beat the shit out of my neighbor with a bike chain? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/172 "2023-02-27T02:19:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Is there a distinction between a “right,” as you use the term, and “being able to do whatever I want?” Of course. There is also a requirement to follow the rules. Just as there is a requirement to follow the law if you don’t want to lose your natural right of freedom of movement. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/173 "2023-02-27T02:22:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Ideally, sure. So what’s the conceptual difference between what you want to call a “privilege” and a right, _other than_ the fact that the SDMB is a private entity? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/174 "2023-02-27T02:25:37Z")
Let me cut the gordian knot for y’all. **Membership** on the SDMB is a privilege, granted to those who agree to follow its rules. Members gain the **right** to post on the boards so long as they follow those rules. I do not have a right to membership, but as a member in good standing I do have a right to post. Better? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/175 "2023-02-27T02:31:19Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Yet you would surely also object if you were banned for a totally spurious reason that has nothing to do with being in a protected class or being an asshole - you support a sports team that a mod doesn’t like, for example. I would certainly object, and be irritated. And would then think the SDMB had morphed into a place I’d rather not be (I know, sour grapes). But I would not think for a moment that my rights had been violated. I might have a _desire_ to participate, and I might think it’s really crappy to be thrown out of the private clubhouse… But i don’t have an actual _right_ to be there. Not a fundamental _right_. This is where our definitions do not totally correspond. The SDMB is not a public space. It is run by a private organization. Its like I was asked to leave a store because the manager thinks anyone who wears hiking boots is skeevy and prone to shoplift. Tough beans for me. This is where it gets slippery, when social media is involved - are we currently in a public space or a private space? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/176 "2023-02-27T02:34:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > A privilege is granted by a controlling authority. A right is secured by birth alone. An authority, such as our Constitution, does not grant rights, it protects human rights that pre-exist the Constitution, by limiting the power of government to compromise them. This would correspond to my definition of a right as well. It seems to be much narrower than other people’s definition. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/177 "2023-02-27T02:40:45Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So what’s the conceptual difference between what you want to call a “privilege” and a right, _other than_ the fact that the SDMB is a private entity? Let’s put it this way… Some of my personal info, like my email address or IP address is provided by using this site. My right to privacy would be violated if that was disclosed to the public, regardless of the fact that the SDMB is a private entity. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/178 "2023-02-27T02:43:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > **Membership** on the SDMB is a privilege, granted to those who agree to follow its rules. Members gain the **right** to post on the boards so long as they follow those rules. This is just a legalistic formality. This is no different in practice to being born with the right to be a member, with the knowledge that you will lose that right if you don’t follow the rules. Which is precisely analogous to being born with the right of freedom of movement, with the knowledge that you will lose that right if you break the law. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/179 "2023-02-27T02:44:56Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > This is just a legalistic formality. **Society** is a legalistic formality. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277/180 "2023-02-27T02:45:59Z")
No, it’s not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dang-if-you-didnt-think-scott-adams-was-a-piece-of-shit-before-just-look-at-him-now/980277.md?page=10)