# Well dressed men smash up liquor stores in Oakland **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 26, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758 "2005-11-26T01:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/1 "2005-11-26T01:55:48Z")
[Inside Bay Area story](http://www.insidebayarea.com/search/ci_3250665#) WTF? I guess protesting just ain’t what it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/2 "2005-11-26T02:02:15Z")
Link doesn’t work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/3 "2005-11-26T02:08:15Z")
It’s slow to load. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/4 "2005-11-26T02:29:09Z")
The well-dressed men were supposedly Nation of Islam (Black Muslim) and the liquor stores were Muslim-owned. The object was to convince the storekeepers not to sell liquor to Blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/5 "2005-11-26T03:58:29Z")
I knew it had to be NOI as soon as I heard “bow ties”. How are the store owners supposed to control who buys from them? If the goal is to cut down on alcohol consumption in the black communities, a better approach would be to stake themselves outside the store and discourage (verbally) people from going in to buy liquor. That would still hurt business, but not as much as vandalism, and there should be a legal loophole, like staying so many feet away from the entrance. This is just thuggery. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/6 "2005-11-26T04:03:04Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > This is just thuggery. I agree. I wonder how it’ll be before there’s a bunch of dead well dressed men lying in pools of blood in liquor stores? ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/7 "2005-11-26T04:44:21Z")
Well! \ I live in a mostly Irish neighborhood and have Catholic friends who work in drugstores that SELL BIRTH CONTROL DEVICES! I’m putting on a nice dress suit and my lawyer will be on speed dial. See you on the news. \ ---
**Author:** ![ms.deanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@ms.deanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ms.deanna)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/8 "2005-11-26T05:28:11Z")
Those guys should have went down the block and told the hoodrats to stop selling crack. I guarantee you they would not have walked away from that unscathed. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/9 "2005-11-26T05:36:36Z")
Carrie Nation wore long dresses. I think pink and white poka dots would have made more of a statement… ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/10 "2005-11-26T06:59:07Z")
Liquor terrorism! I saw a guy downtown the other day with a sign saying Why lie-I need beer on one side and the other side said Ninjas killed my family, I need money for karate lessons. He had some money in his cup. I wonder if they think that because they wore nice suits, they’ll get less of a sentence? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/11 "2005-11-26T07:19:34Z")
> [@Good Egg](#): > > I wonder if they think that because they wore nice suits, they’ll get less of a sentence? No. Dark suits, starched white shirts and bow ties are effectively the uniform for Nation of Islam. When Spike Lee was filming **Do the Right Thing** in Bedord-Stuyvesant, he got NOI members to act as security. (Except I remember he called them Fruit of Islam.) Anyway, he did this because he knew they commanded respect in that community _and could do so without violence_. I don’t know if the California chapters are different, or if something’s changed, or maybe this is just a rogue chapter. Point is, though, NOI members are pretty darn recognizable, and they didn’t choose to go incognito for this operation. And it’s possible that they could confront crack dealers and still walk away unharmed. Also, I should note that these might not have been strictly liquor stores. In CA, any grocery store or bodega can apply for a liquor license; you don’t have to go to Vendome Liquors or wherever to get beer, wine or hard liquor. In the video I saw, there appeared to be other, non-liquor products for sale, so at least that one store, and probably others, had a purpose besides selling alcohol. If it’s this much of a problem, it probably starts with the state liquor board. But in the end, every store owner stocks what he knows will sell. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/12 "2005-11-26T10:45:27Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Dark suits, starched white shirts and bow ties… > > . Like mom always said about us kids, “you can dress them up, but you can’t take them anywhere.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/13 "2005-11-26T14:35:37Z")
There was a security video on CNN’s site and it shows several of the men’s faces quite clearly. Hopefully they’ll be caught. ---
**Author:** ![Intermatic\_Timer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Intermatic\_Timer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intermatic_Timer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/14 "2005-11-26T14:45:42Z")
This boldness is frightening! To put Islam above society, without regard to your own future (they will all be caught - they are on tape and most have already been recognized by the public). People who do that, go to prison rather than allow a fellow Mohammaden to sell liquor, are soon going to strap on explosives and do it big time. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/15 "2005-11-26T15:09:21Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Like mom always said about us kids, “you can dress them up, but you can’t take them anywhere.” The NOI has traditionally been a nonviolent organization. A large part of their agenda is to redeem gang members and drug addicts, to keep young people away from those things in the first place, and to instill a sense of pride in black youth. I’m not ready to condemn the entire NOI based on this one incident. As I said earlier, this may simply be a rogue chapter. Also, not necessarily in this instance, but choosing to go to prison for what you believe in is not a prelude to suicide bombing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/16 "2005-11-26T15:14:50Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > …this may simply be a rogue chapter… [tin foil hat on] What’s the possibility it’s a group of men who want everybody to think they’re NOI? [tin foil hat off] ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/17 "2005-11-26T15:20:06Z")
Not much, really. The NOI is too powerful (I didn’t say dangerous) to mess around with like that. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/18 "2005-11-26T15:20:48Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > [tin foil hat on] > What’s the possibility it’s a group of men who want everybody to think they’re NOI? > [tin foil hat off] Hmmmmmmmmm. Not out of the question given that the NOI largely eschews violence. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/19 "2005-11-26T15:22:59Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > [tin foil hat on] > What’s the possibility it’s a group of men who want everybody to think they’re NOI? > [tin foil hat off] Then they’d have had to disguise their faces. If they are already being identified by the public and hauled in, their association or non-association with NOI is going to be known pretty quickly. (Of course, they might just be dumb.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758/20 "2005-11-26T15:34:08Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > (Of course, they might just be dumb.) I’ll take “they’re just dumb” for $500. Daniel [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-dressed-men-smash-up-liquor-stores-in-oakland/332758.md?page=2)