# Well, Either Cosmos 1 is Headed for Space **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 21, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227 "2005-06-21T17:33:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/1 "2005-06-21T17:33:23Z")
[Or it’ll crash like the Planetary Society’s webpage keeps doing.](http://www.planetary.org/solarsail/) Probably more interesting, IMHO, than a solar sail being sent into space, is _how_ [it’s being launched.](http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/06/21/russia.cosmos.reut/index.html) > [@](#): > > Cosmos 1 was built by Russian spacecraft contractor NPO Lavochkin. It will be launched in the tip of a converted intercontinental ballistic missile that was part of the Soviet Cold War arsenal. The plan is for it to orbit Earth for at least a month. > > The rocket trip and a boost from a “kick motor” will put the 220.5-pound (100 kg) spacecraft into orbit about 550 miles (885 km) above Earth shortly after 1 p.m. PDT (1800 GMT). The missile, it should be noted, is being fired from a submarine. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/2 "2005-06-21T18:27:18Z")
Since the website is goffy…Have you any idea how much thrust they think they will get from the sail? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/3 "2005-06-21T18:38:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Since the website is goffy…Have you any idea how much thrust they think they will get from the sail? IIRC, it’s no more than a few ounces or pounds. The idea being that it’s like the low-powered nuclear drives: You don’t get a lot of thrust all at once, but you get it for far longer than you would with a chemical rocket. In his _Expanded Universe_ RAH talks about how it’d be possible to get to Mars in a few **months** with a solar sail. (Of course, it’d have to be **huge** , but still possible.) ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/4 "2005-06-21T23:20:34Z")
Damn. Looks like like it may have gone the way of the [web site](http://planetary.org/solarsailblog/index_03.html) > [@Planetary Society](#): > > since no station has detected the spacecraft since Petropavlovsk, and Strategic Command has not detected it either, we don’t know where the spacecraft is. Again, given the lack of detection by Strategic Command the two most likely scenarios at this point are failure to enter orbit at all, or entry into an unexpected orbit. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/5 "2005-06-22T06:47:20Z")
Well, it looks like there might still be a glimmer of hope. [From CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/06/21/russia.cosmos.reut/index.html): > [@](#): > > Cosmos 1, the first solar sail-powered spacecraft, appears to be “alive” and sending signals to tracking stations but could be in a lower orbit than planned, said mission experts in California, late on Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/6 "2005-06-22T13:25:56Z")
KaBoom KaBoom. Shalalalalala Shalalalalala KaBoom KaBoom. Shalalalalala Shalalalalala ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/7 "2005-06-22T14:10:32Z")
In other words [the booster went boom.](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=8862719) sigh ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/8 "2005-06-22T16:05:53Z")
Had we known that the darn things didn’t work, we wouldn’t have had such a problem with Cuba. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/9 "2005-06-22T16:13:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Had we known that the darn things didn’t work, we wouldn’t have had such a problem with Cuba. > 🙂 I remember reading a quote by a general talking about the Cold War and saying something about how they expected an insane amount of Soviet gear to simply **not** work. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/10 "2005-06-22T16:49:02Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > I remember reading a quote by a general talking about the Cold War and saying something about how they expected an insane amount of Soviet gear to simply **not** work. After hearing about the Patriot missile “successes” in Gulf War I, I would have expected a fair amount of U.S. gear to not work either. Which is why, in hindsight, it was reassuring that both sides had enough redundant gear to destroy the world several times over. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/11 "2005-06-22T17:10:14Z")
> [@FordPrefect](#): > > After hearing about the Patriot missile “successes” in Gulf War I, 70% in Saudi Arabia protecting military targets, but only 40% in Israel, because cities were targeted and “The [IDF](http://www.cdi.org/issues/bmd/Patriot.html) counted any Scud that exploded on the ground (regardless of whether or not it was diverted) as a failure for the Patriot.” ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/12 "2005-06-22T18:05:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > 70% in Saudi Arabia protecting military targets, but only 40% in Israel, because cities were targeted and “The [IDF](http://www.cdi.org/issues/bmd/Patriot.html) > counted any Scud that exploded on the ground (regardless of whether or not it was diverted) as a failure for the Patriot.” I don’t know how reliable the Federation of American Scientists is but this is the [closest cite](http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/docops/rp911024.htm) I can find that corrobarates a memory I have of a news clip I saw a couple of years ago… They both seem to be saying the same thing but implying different outcomes. As in your article seems to be saying that the Patriots did okay and my article seems to be saying that the Patriots got lucky. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/13 "2005-06-22T23:05:17Z")
> [@FordPrefect](#): > > my article seems to be saying that the Patriots got lucky. They didn’t seem very lucky in Israel. I still seems to me that “hitting” the target means detonating near the scud and knocking in off course to Rayethon and literally hitting and destroying the warhead to the Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/14 "2005-06-23T05:54:56Z")
Looks like it’s a [goner.](http://planetary.org/solarsailblog/index_05.html)☹ > [@](#): > > With failure of Cosmos 1 virtually certain, the team members that have been staffing Project Operations Pasadena have elected to return to their homes. Thanks to the Internet, if our spacecraft miraculously reappears, each of us will still be able to keep watch over the mission from our individual remote locations. Greg returns to Berkeley, Jim and Brent to Utah, and Paul to his usual life at the Jet Propulsion Lab, just up the valley from Pasadena. Lou will be returning from Moscow in a couple of days. I took off for home a couple of hours ago in order to begin to catch up on sleep. > > The team may be scattering, but it’s not over. The search for the spacecraft continues. The search continues in the present, as several observatories have offered to try to look for a signal from the spacecraft. (If you, too, have a spare observatory, feel free to search at a frequency of 401.5275 Hz, but I am afraid that I can’t offer any advice on where to point your antenna.) The search also continues into the past, as Strategic Command is working through its “unknown objects bucket” (as Jim called it this morning) to find where the spacecraft and its launch vehicle ended up. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/15 "2005-06-23T06:47:12Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They didn’t seem very lucky in Israel. I still seems to me that **“hitting” the target means detonating near the scud and knocking in off course** to Rayethon and literally hitting and destroying the warhead to the Israelis. Well, to be fair it was a mission kill. Had it been a nuclear warhead or a bio warhead on its way , then possibly tel aviv or one of the other citys would have been spared the initial destruction. Since then , its been upgraded from a proximity kill , to a skin kill. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/16 "2005-06-23T06:48:59Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > I remember reading a quote by a general talking about the Cold War and saying something about how they expected an insane amount of Soviet gear to simply **not** work. I think that quote was after the cold war ,when we finally got to see a fair amount of soviet equipment and installations , one of the quotes was that some of those nuclear tipped ICBMS would not launch , unless you detonated the warhead under it. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/17 "2005-06-23T06:52:55Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Well, to be fair it was a mission kill. Had it been a nuclear warhead or a bio warhead on its way , then possibly tel aviv or one of the other citys would have been spared the initial destruction. > > Since then , its been upgraded from a proximity kill , to a skin kill. > > Declan Also, the Patriot was _not_ originally designed to intercept missiles, and had only been hurriedly converted to such a role right before the war. > [@](#): > > I think that quote was after the cold war ,when we finally got to see a fair amount of soviet equipment and installations , one of the quotes was that some of those nuclear tipped ICBMS would not launch , unless you detonated the warhead under it. Could be. I don’t remember where I read/heard it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/18 "2005-06-23T12:15:20Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Also, the Patriot was _not_ originally designed to intercept missiles, I believe it was an anti aircraft weapon, but hitting a ballistic target should be much easier than one that can evade. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-either-cosmos-1-is-headed-for-space/309227/19 "2005-06-23T15:16:43Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe it was an anti aircraft weapon, but hitting a ballistic target should be much easier than one that can evade. Except that it’s much smaller, and if hitting a ballistic target were so easy, we’d already have a functional SDI system in place.