# Well I'll be a monkey's uncle! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 29, 2001, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012 "2001-03-29T20:26:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![riley\_dieffenbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@riley\_dieffenbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/riley_dieffenbach)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2001, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/1 "2001-03-29T20:26:08Z")
My 85 year old grandfather broke out with that expression the other day. The text as I remember it ensues “If that boy (my reprobate cousin Don) stays out of a jail for a year well then I’ll be a monkey’s uncle” I don’t know if this is a regional expression or a national one. It also seems to have several variations from something like “If that kid has an IQ over 70 then I’m a monkey’s uncle”, to the example above. Especially in the latter form this would appear to be an expression related to creationist belief. In other words statement A is as likely as the proposition that I’m related to monkeys. In the former form however the meaning isn’t as clear. Saying “I will be a monkey’s uncle” doesn’t seem to be the same statement. Can someone enlightment me on the genesis of this expression. Might it predate the evolution vs. creation debate or is it a regional rural expression related to the spread of evolutionist teaching. Any help would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Ma\_Parrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dec6dc/32.png) [@Ma\_Parrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ma_Parrot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2001, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/2 "2001-03-29T23:11:35Z")
Seem’s to me I just means “I’m an idiot”. Like “I’m a sone of a gun”, which replaces the original “I’m an SOB”. Trying to tie it to creationism seems like a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![msc75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc79bd/32.png) [@msc75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msc75)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2001, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/3 "2001-03-30T00:01:57Z")
I think the phrase is pretty much the same as saying, “I’ll be an African Albino.” It’s something that cannot happen, much like, or so your Grandpa thinks, your cousin cannot stay out of jail. This is just speculation on my part, and I would be interested in knowing the genesis of this statement as well. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2001, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/4 "2001-03-30T01:35:25Z")
The earliest cite that you can find in print in the US, according to JE Lighter, _American Slang_, is from 1926, where it appeared in a wise-crack dictionary, and meant _to be surprised_. Which is the meaning that I have always given it. I will try to get to the library tomorrow to check the OED, unless someone gets here first. There are all kinds of expressions going back to the 18th century using the term “monkey”. Just as there are many using the term “cat”. There is always the possibility of there being a Darwin connection. ---
**Author:** ![Scruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Scruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruff)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2001, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/5 "2001-03-30T02:48:50Z")
Interesting. **samclem** ’s cite puts the origin of the saying somewhere around the time of the Scopes “Monkey” Trial ([State vs. John Scopes"](http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/evolut.htm)). Can this be mere coincidence? My hypothesis is that the saying came into being (as an expression of emphatic certainty) as a result of the publicity and furor surrounding the Scopes trial. ``` Scruff ``` ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2001, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/6 "2001-03-30T04:40:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > The earliest cite that you can find in print in the US, according to JE Lighter, _American Slang_, is from 1926, where it appeared in a wise-crack dictionary, and meant _to be surprised_. Which is the meaning that I have always given it. > > I will try to get to the library tomorrow to check the OED, unless someone gets here first. Me first. The OED gives the same reference of Maines & Grant _Wise-Crack Dictionary_ for the first printed cite in 1926. Considering that this is a slang dictionary, the expression must go back a little ways. My guess is that it is actually connected to evolution through Darwin (not the Scopes trial). To find out that humans are related to monkeys must have been quite a surprise. (“You thought humans were special? Well, surprise! We’re related to monkeys.”) [aside]The next entry under _monkey_ in the OED is: > [@](#): > > d. Slang phr. not to give (or care) a monkey’s (fuck, etc.): not to care at all; to be completely indifferent or unconcerned. > Even without the last bracketed word a fairly coarse expression. Gotta love the OED. [/aside] ---
**Author:** ![riley\_dieffenbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@riley\_dieffenbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/riley_dieffenbach)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2001, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/7 "2001-03-30T15:05:32Z")
Spoke to my grandfather to see if he could give me any insight. All I could gather was that he sure as heck doesn’t believe in evolution. He never connected the expression with evolution in his mind though. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2001, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/8 "2001-03-30T15:39:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msc75 \* > \*\*I think the phrase is pretty much the same as saying, “I’ll be an African Albino.” > It’s something that cannot happen, much like, or so your Grandpa thinks, your cousin cannot stay out of jail. > This is just speculation on my part, and I would be interested in knowing the genesis of this statement as well. > \*\* I think you’re over PCing yourself, substituting “African” for “black”. I have seen pictures of albinos of African descent, so I know it can happen. But using “black” as a color, a black albino is truly impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2001, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/9 "2001-03-30T15:50:04Z")
An Irishman walks down the street. He sees a Red Colombus Monkey sitting on the curb. The Irishman looks at the monkey. The monkey looks at the Irishman. The Irishman ass a policeman what he should do with the monkey. “Take it to the zoo.” says the copper. Next day, the Cop sees the Irishman walking down the street, leading the Monkey by the hand. “I thought I told you to take that monkey to the zoo” says the flatfoot. “I did” says Paddy “but that was yesterday. Today we’re going to the movies.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![riley\_dieffenbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@riley\_dieffenbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/riley_dieffenbach)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2001, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/10 "2001-03-31T00:39:28Z")
bump 😃 ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2001, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/11 "2001-03-31T05:29:48Z")
Wouldn’t “I’ll be a monkey’s nephew” be more appropriate if it’s connected to Darwin? ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2001, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/12 "2001-03-31T17:36:02Z")
FWIW during the Scopes “Monkey Trial” in the 1920s there were a number of jokes and editorial cartoons playing upon the concept of the “monkey’s uncle.” Check virtually any newspaper morgue of the time and you will find a great many examples. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2001, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-ill-be-a-monkeys-uncle/60012/13 "2001-04-01T00:18:36Z")
**TV time** If there were examples of _monkey’s uncle_ being used in 1925 during the Scopes trial, I think that it would have appeared in the **OED** or **Lighter**. Since they both use the 1926 _wise-crack dictionary_, it is safe to assume there may have been allusions to men descended from monekeys, but the expression wasn’t used in 1925. By the way, _just how old are you?_