# Well, it probably won't shut up creationists... \[self-replicating RNA enzyme systems\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901 "2009-01-12T12:08:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/21 "2009-01-12T19:09:02Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > This is actually the fundie Christian belief, that God exists outside of Spacetime and created the entire observable Universe in six days, 6012 years ago, solely for Earth’s benefit. Actually for His Son’s benefit. > [@](#): > > Which, when you consider all those billions of galactic superclusters, each comprised of wasted galaxies filled with dead, empty solar systems serving no useful function, can only lead to one conclusion…God works for the government! Just some wild speculation here, the universe may be where we will live once raised from the dead, we see dead planets and a very lonely universe that may have died when man fell. When Jesus comes to restore all things, one theory I’ve heard is that we will continuously spread out to other planets, all wonderfully different. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/22 "2009-01-12T19:28:11Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Both Jesus and **cmyk** have stated that ‘men are gods’, so in that respect with man as the ultimate authority as a general doctrine of atheism, atheism is one of the most, if not the most polytheistic religion in the world today. And **cmyk** was quite obviously _joking_. You do realize that most, if not all, atheists do not see people as gods, right? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/23 "2009-01-12T19:31:45Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > And **cmyk** was quite obviously _joking_. You do realize that most, if not all, atheists do not see people as gods, right? Yes, but that does not stop them from depending on them for their daily needs, as I depend on the Lord for things like my daily bread. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/24 "2009-01-12T19:35:14Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Actually for His Son’s benefit. Wow. Talk about your nepotism. That’s epic even by Chicago standards. 😃 And **kanicbird** The difference between Sodom and Gomorrah and Hiroshima and Nagasaki is, the fact that people alive today SAW the latter and only READ about the former. So really, there’s no comparison. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/25 "2009-01-12T19:36:58Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Yes, but that does not stop them from depending on them for their daily needs, as I depend on the Lord for things like my daily bread. Wow. The Lord does bread delivery now? How about pizza? Can he get it here in 30 minutes or less? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/26 "2009-01-12T19:38:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Yes, but that does not stop them from depending on them for their daily needs, as I depend on the Lord for things like my daily bread. You buy your bread from the store and so do atheists. That’s how it’s always worked. I think this has wandered into Great Debates territory, so I’m going to send it over there. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/27 "2009-01-12T20:00:53Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > …but it goes a long way towards a really elementary and convincing argument regarding the origins of life: For the first time, indefinitely self-replicating RNA enzyme systems have been [created in the lab](http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/comment/reply/18191). > > And what’s even more, they evolve: > Who’s for shipping the mix to some distant planet for some hot, steamy, panspermic action? 😃 I’m not sure that’s such a great idea. At sublight speeds, such a vessel could be outbound ling enough for the passengers to evolve to a point where they figure out who we are, and what we’ve done to them. And they might further decide to come back and _reconquista_ the planet that sent them out. Sure, it’ll just be our descendents many generations down the line that’ll have to deal with them. But we’re on course to leave them with enough challenges as it is, y’know? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/28 "2009-01-12T20:06:23Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Yes, but that does not stop them from depending on them for their daily needs, as I depend on the Lord for things like my daily bread. Does it arrive in the mailbox, or sort of materialize in the kitchen? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/29 "2009-01-12T20:10:45Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Eh. Most Christians I know accept evolution perfectly well - myself included. So maybe this will just push some fundamentalists toward Catholicism. 😉 Can you explain how you believe it is possible to be a christian evolutionist? It seems to me that being a christian requires the belief that god intended to create humans while evolutionary theory holds that humans are not a required outcome or the end result of the process. So, I contend that a christian evolutionist can only believe in “evolution light” or something, which says that one species involved from another with humans as the goal all along. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/30 "2009-01-12T20:30:27Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Wow. The Lord does bread delivery now? How about pizza? Can he get it here in 30 minutes or less? Silly atheist! God works outside of Spacetime, so you’ll get your pizza even before you know you’re hungry! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/31 "2009-01-12T20:36:19Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Wow. Talk about your nepotism. That’s epic even by Chicago standards. 😃 Actually that’s even more depressing. “Oh, all right, I’ll build you your goddamn ant farm. Now let me watch my stories and bring me a beer, will you Son ? Good boy.” 😃 And **kanicbird** , you do realize that atheists don’t actually venerate people, right ? Contrary to popular belief, we don’t congregate on weekends to kneel before images of Descartes and Einstein, and recite Their Holy Words that can not be questioned. Atheists are the Mythbusters : they don’t just \*tell \*the silly creation stories… theyyyy put them tooo the test ! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/32 "2009-01-12T20:36:52Z")
> [@Spiff](#): > > Silly atheist! > > God works outside of Spacetime, so you’ll get your pizza even before you know you’re hungry! Actually, you’ll have already gotten it two weeks ago. Outside of spacetime, God can’t be bothered with trivial things like causality after all. Curiously, it arrived the last time he ordered pizza, since God works in mysterious ways. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/33 "2009-01-12T20:43:27Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Eh. Most Christians I know accept evolution perfectly well - myself included. So maybe this will just push some fundamentalists toward Catholicism. 😉 It’s good the OP said creationists, not Christians then. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/34 "2009-01-12T20:47:26Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Yeah, all it took was carefully controlled laboratory conditions set up by someone who knew what the end result was meant to look like. Not _quite_ a monkey-and-typewriter undertaking. > > Incidentally, I thought that evolution and abiogenesis were meant to be distinct topics? Generally, yes, but the RNA world hypothesis has evolution beginning with replicating molecules, which is what happened here. My reading of the article is that they did not know what the result was going to look like. They forced selection of the RNA enzymes to speed things up, but that was because the poor woman wanted to finish her dissertation in less than a million years. In nature this would take a lot longer. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/35 "2009-01-12T20:51:28Z")
One nice thing about this awesome research is that it might finally stop creationists thinking that the first living thing was a complex cell. Here we have something replicating and evolving much simpler than that. The article was careful to say that this was not the creation of life, even if it had some lifelike properties. I wonder what is required to say that life at the simplest level is created? Could they get this to evolve into DNA? How about a very simple virus? When is the spark of life supposed to be blown into something, and what insurmountable barrier is supposed to exist between replicating RNA and that? As for me, I smell Nobel Prize not that many years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/36 "2009-01-12T20:56:31Z")
'Bout fucking time. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/37 "2009-01-12T20:57:15Z")
My biology and chemistry suck. What sort of gap is there between the product of the Miller-Urey experiments and these molecules? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/38 "2009-01-12T21:02:00Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The article was careful to say that this was not the creation of life, even if it had some lifelike properties. I wonder what is required to say that life at the simplest level is created?.. When is the spark of life supposed to be blown into something…? It’s a soritical matter. No point pretending there is a hard cut-off. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/39 "2009-01-12T21:24:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Yes, but that does not stop them from depending on them for their daily needs, as I depend on the Lord for things like my daily bread. You know who I depend on for my daily bread? Me. Just me. I go to work every day to earn the money for that daily bread. God doesn’t have a whole lot to do with that, in my view. Or else he’s sponging his reputation off of my hard work. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/40 "2009-01-12T21:26:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Can you explain how you believe it is possible to be a christian evolutionist? . Accept Jesus as your Lord and savior, and have some incorrect belief about how God created the universe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901.md?page=3)