# Well, it probably won't shut up creationists... \[self-replicating RNA enzyme systems\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901 "2009-01-12T12:08:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/61 "2009-01-12T22:25:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We need a provider of resources, which you claim you are your own provider. Providing our own resources is part of the original sin, Eve followed (worshiped) Satan in obtaining the fruit, Adam followed (worshiped) himself in trying to get back with Eve. Thanks for reminding me why I stopped arguing with you. What answer am I supposed to give to myths? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/62 "2009-01-12T22:29:48Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We need a provider of resources, which you claim you are your own provider. Providing our own resources is part of the original sin . . . Hey guys, remember this post. There’s something fundamentally evil here, that we don’t see too often, not on this level. Not even from this poster. This is a confession of hatred for everything that is unique about being human. “Providing our own resources” means putting a roof over our heads and bread on our tables, and providing ourselves with everything we need and love in life, both material and non-material. “Providing our own resources” means taking personal responsibility for our lives and for the quality of our lives. “Providing our own resources” means, above all, being responsible for the unique content of our minds, and for our own happiness. This is what this poster considers sinful. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/63 "2009-01-12T22:33:04Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > WHY would God create our universe with the appearance of age?? Why would He create dinosaur fossils, geological strata, and laws of physics which allow us to objectively measure the distance of stars up to 14 billion light-years away? Was it all to intentionally deceive His children? Because there’s no chance I would trust ANY God who acts with such inherent deception – such an entity, if He existed, would be THE DEVIL and must be rebuked. So…why do you remain a believer? To answer your question, I will propose this theory, it is the function of the ‘fallen world’, which may be a descriptive term of us actually falling spiritually into the earth. It’s a world that is given over partly to the enemy and his deception, the lower we fall the more we are in the deception of the enemy. As we fell things grew more distant in the past and things got further away (such as stars). As we fall further we depend less and less on God and more and more on man (the plan of the enemy, enslave people). An example man invents irrigation and as a result God withholds the rain, moving man further away from him and increasing man’s workload. Ski areas put in snowmaking and God withholds the snow, increasing man’s work load. Man learns to trust man instead of God. Also I find it interesting that things once usually buried, such as oil tanks, are now above ground, highway noise barriers make it look like we are driving in channels underground, like we are falling continuously deeper into the earth. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/64 "2009-01-12T22:34:59Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > No, I have a infallible God as my God, they have gods that are known to be error prone, but it’s the best they can come up with. So are you trying to say that you interact with the rest of the material world differently than those who do not believe in your god? When I read an article on investing money (to use your example), I evaluate the advice based on what I know of the source (publisher and author), what I know of the topic from personal experience, and the logic and evidence presented. Since I am not an expert on this topic, I might additionally do a little research to see if anything else backs up the article before I would put my money behind an investment. Do you skip to the recommendations and then simply pray? Do you go to God for stock tips? To use my example, if I deposit a check at the bank I consider the risk and level of uncertainty to be low enough and my recourses if something goes wrong adequate that I do not worry about the check going astray. If the check was for a larger amount or critically vital, I might take more precautions than normal. Do you pray to God for guidance on which branch and which ATM or teller to use? I could be wrong, suspect that the only real difference between the way we deal with the day to day world is that you have a background belief that God is looking out for you, but that neither of us consider bankers, doctors, or scientists gods. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/65 "2009-01-12T22:35:47Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > To answer your question, I will propose this theory, it is the function of the ‘fallen world’, which may be a descriptive term of us actually falling spiritually into the earth. It’s a world that is given over partly to the enemy and his deception, the lower we fall the more we are in the deception of the enemy. As we fell things grew more distant in the past and things got further away (such as stars). As we fall further we depend less and less on God and more and more on man (the plan of the enemy, enslave people). An example man invents irrigation and as a result God withholds the rain, moving man further away from him and increasing man’s workload. Ski areas put in snowmaking and God withholds the snow, increasing man’s work load. Man learns to trust man instead of God. Also I find it interesting that things once usually buried, such as oil tanks, are now above ground, highway noise barriers make it look like we are driving in channels underground, like we are falling continuously deeper into the earth. I think this has reached the level of actual clinical insanity. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/66 "2009-01-12T22:41:48Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > So are you trying to say that you interact with the rest of the material world differently than those who do not believe in your god? When I read an article on investing money (to use your example), I evaluate the advice based on what I know of the source (publisher and author), what I know of the topic from personal experience, and the logic and evidence presented. Since I am not an expert on this topic, I might additionally do a little research to see if anything else backs up the article before I would put my money behind an investment. Do you skip to the recommendations and then simply pray? Do you go to God for stock tips? I may hear something interesting and will pray about it. Ask God for His will on this subject and try to overcome natural human desire. > [@](#): > > Do you pray to God for guidance on which branch and which ATM or teller to use? My take on it is He is our Father and He would love to hear from us, even in such ‘little’ matters. So sometimes I do pray about things like what route to take, or what store to go to, but more along the lines of ‘Father I am going to ----------, just letting you know.’ sometimes adding if He doesn’t want me to for Him to let me know. > [@](#): > > I could be wrong, suspect that the only real difference between the way we deal with the day to day world is that you have a background belief that God is looking out for you, but that neither of us consider bankers, doctors, or scientists gods. Yes that is one way to look at it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/67 "2009-01-12T22:42:54Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I think this has reached the level of actual clinical insanity. And I could say the same about the theory of evolution, the big bang theory. (hint, I just said it’s a theory) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/68 "2009-01-12T22:44:03Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > And I could say the same about the theory of evolution, the big bang theory. > > (hint, I just said it’s a theory) Yes, you could. You would be so laughably wrong that people who overhear you will convince themselves that you could not have POSSIBLY said that, but you very well could. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/69 "2009-01-12T22:44:58Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > And I could say the same about the theory of evolution, the big bang theory. > > (hint, I just said it’s a theory) The difference between what you call a theory and what scientists call a theory is that the ones scientists deal with are based on actual facts. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/70 "2009-01-12T22:47:23Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Wow. The Lord does bread delivery now? How about pizza? Can he get it here in 30 minutes or less? Yes, but to God a minute is as a thousand minutes, so you’ll end up waiting most of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/71 "2009-01-12T22:49:51Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > And I could say the same about the theory of evolution, the big bang theory. > > (hint, I just said it’s a theory) You don’t actually know what the word “theory” means, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/72 "2009-01-12T22:52:16Z")
**kanicbird** , you’re assuming everybody needs something to occupy the place of a god, even if they don’t believe in one. That’s completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/73 "2009-01-12T22:55:41Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We need a provider of resources, which you claim you are your own provider. Providing our own resources is part of the original sin, Eve followed (worshiped) Satan in obtaining the fruit, Adam followed (worshiped) himself in trying to get back with Eve. Colorless green ideas sleep furiously. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/74 "2009-01-12T22:57:52Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > As we fell things grew more distant in the past and things got further away (such as stars). Could you elaborate on this process a bit? Did the stars move? Did the past get longer ago (I mean, faster than one second per second)? ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/75 "2009-01-12T23:05:25Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I may hear something interesting and will pray about it. Ask God for His will on this subject and try to overcome natural human desire. > > My take on it is He is our Father and He would love to hear from us, even in such ‘little’ matters. So sometimes I do pray about things like what route to take, or what store to go to, but more along the lines of ‘Father I am going to ----------, just letting you know.’ sometimes adding if He doesn’t want me to for Him to let me know. > > Yes that is one way to look at it. So, a last side theological question since I do not think we can come to an agreement on the need to replace God: do you consider it right or good to depend on God for all decisions? In other words, do consider it evil to try and reason for yourself? Do you believe the ability to think and reason is a temptation of the enemy of a gift of God? Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/76 "2009-01-12T23:11:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We need a provider of resources, which you claim you are your own provider. **Providing our own resources is part of the original sin** , Eve followed (worshiped) Satan in obtaining the fruit, Adam followed (worshiped) himself in trying to get back with Eve. Bolding mine. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Well you are providing for your own needs, this seems like a quality that a god must have. So gods have original sin? Hypocrites. PS. kanicbird, do you dispute the _theory_ of gravitation? Are you an advocate of Intelligent Falling? What about Pythagoras’ _Theorem_? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/77 "2009-01-12T23:16:56Z")
Isn’t it about time we applied a new label for empirically verified branches of science? This “it’s just a theory” crutch should’ve been kicked out long ago. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/78 "2009-01-12T23:19:07Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > An example man invents irrigation and as a result God withholds the rain, moving man further away from him and increasing man’s workload. Ski areas put in snowmaking and God withholds the snow, increasing man’s work load. Cite for your assertions that irrigation and snow-making equipment leads to drought, please? Do you believe that there are fewer hours of daylight in a 24-hour period since the invention of artificial illumination? If so, did this trend begin the first time someone used flint to set fire to a piece of wood, or did it wait for the widespread adoption of the electric light bulb? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/79 "2009-01-12T23:24:09Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Actually for His Son’s benefit.(snip) Actually it was so his son could come here to be tortured to death (temporarily) by the inhabitants. Come to think of it, having his son tortured to death sounds like the kind of thing a son of a bitch like God would do. I guess it does make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901/80 "2009-01-12T23:31:21Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > …man invents irrigation and as a result God withholds the rain, moving man further away from him and increasing man’s workload. How do you _feel_ about that? If a human behaved in that way, how would you describe him? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-it-probably-wont-shut-up-creationists-self-replicating-rna-enzyme-systems/480901.md?page=5)