# Well kiddies, looks like Syria's NEXT. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 14, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546 "2003-04-14T03:18:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/21 "2003-04-14T08:12:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*That’s screamingly funny, **Uzi**. > > Where exactly are you getting _your_ perspective from? \*\* From working in Yemen the last 2 years. Where do you get your’s from? Your ass? I think the problems the people in the ME region (I was going to say Arabs, but the area encompasses more than just them) face isn’t anything other than their own making, or if it isn’t then it certainly is in their own hands to fix. Please, explain why it is necessary to blame the US, or anyone else, for their troubles? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/22 "2003-04-14T09:27:02Z")
> [@](#): > > I think it was a mistake to say that the iraq war was about WMD. I think it was about removing someone who was hated and who tortured his people, and who might have used his WMD to inflict mass casualties. I agree wholeheartedly with Lobsang. We should not go to Syria. Saddam was an exception, in that he was a tyrant that violated UN sanctions and murdered his own people (gee, this hyperbole thing is fun…). Syria? I don’t care if they “might” have WMD’s… gimme a reasonable UN sanction against ‘em, and then I’ll give the notion some consideration. I don’t care if they “might” be harboring Saddam… that’s not enough reason to invade. For all I know, every single person in Syria might be a total, complete asshole… but y’know what? Bein’ an asshole was never reason enough for invasion. If the US goes into Syria, _that’s_ when I’ll start protesting (though I won’t join in any mass vomitings…) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/23 "2003-04-14T09:30:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Uzi \* > \*\*From working in Yemen the last 2 years. \*\* Cowtown is Yemen??? Who woulda thunk it? ---
**Author:** ![widdershins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@widdershins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdershins)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/24 "2003-04-14T10:04:16Z")
Of course Syria is next. With Iraq now unable to carry out it’s duties as a member of the Axis of Evil, a new nation had to be called up from the minors. We can’t have just a Tagteam of Evil! [Cheapshot]Then again, maybe somebody struck oil just outside of Damascus.[/Cheapshot] ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/25 "2003-04-14T10:26:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Cowtown is Yemen??? > > Who woulda thunk it? \*\* No Cowtown is in Alberta. I work in the ME as my profile says. Specifically Yemen. 1 month at work, 1 month bumming around the world or at home. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/26 "2003-04-14T10:56:48Z")
Sorry, **Uzi**. I had thought that you got the idea that “the typical Arab is shooting at you” via the cynical manipulation of public opinion by the Bush government. I accept now that you formed that opinion independently. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/27 "2003-04-14T11:41:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by djf750 \* > \*\*And I repeat from another post, if this was Clinton or Gore doing this, 99% of these protesters would be all for it. \*\* Bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/28 "2003-04-14T12:02:46Z")
Bush Administration to Syria: “_ **Prove** _ that you’re not harboring Saddam Hussein!!!” Sound familiar? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/29 "2003-04-14T12:18:17Z")
I think its foolish to assume the US will attack. In Iraq, the war was touch-and-go at times (tell me you Missed that Sunday where we lost significant ground, had POWs captured, and falsely claimed to have taken Basra? It was the day that all the news coverage blacked out and all the channels went back to normal programing) To say Syria is 100 Times stronger than Iraq is an understatement: they and isreal have been holding each other at bay for years, Unspoken Nuclear Capability and All. Their equipment has always been Soviet & French and there has never been a lack of spare parts. They have direct land routes to parts suppliers as well. We would have about as much luck invading Syria as we would North Korea: They also have a strong ally to the north who would counter-invade. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/30 "2003-04-14T12:31:29Z")
**quietman1920** , while you say that “it’s foolish to assume the US will attack”, the rest of your post supports the proposition “it would be foolish _for_ the US to attack”. They aren’t the same thing. There’s an assumption built in to your post, which is something like “The US will not act foolishly”. That’s a brave assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/31 "2003-04-14T12:46:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*Sorry, **Uzi**. I had thought that you got the idea that “the typical Arab is shooting at you” via the cynical manipulation of public opinion by the Bush government. I accept now that you formed that opinion independently. \*\* I should emphasize that the typical Arab doesn’t want to shoot at anyone, but is just like most of us in that he (I say he because I’ve met only 1 Arab woman since I’ve been here, so I can’t voice an opinion on how they feel about things) wants to live his life in peace. Also, the people I work with tend to be highly educated, so I would assume they would be more moderate in their opinions. I still hear from them that the West (the US in particular) is the reason they are poor or not more important in the world. All this while things like nepotism, kick-backs, graft, and payoffs are endemic. I had one of my employees come to me and tell me that his computer was stolen from his home. He went to the police station to report it. They said they were busy, but if he paid them they would look into it. Now whose fault is something like that? And when the President of Yemen is one of the richest men in the world while his people are one of the poorest? No one is forcing him to not spend money to help them. And what is really frustrating is that when I talk to them they realize this, but in the same breath they will make claims like the reason the President is in power is because of the CIA?! Completely forgetting the fact that they live in a democracy (sort of) and they could vote him out if they wanted to. But, then I look at the blathering idiot that is the Prime Minister of my own country and realize that we aren’t so different after all (at least regarding the typical voter).:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![booka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@booka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booka)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/32 "2003-04-14T12:59:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quietman1920 \* > **…In Iraq, the war was touch-and-go at times (tell me you Missed that Sunday where we lost significant ground, had POWs captured, and falsely claimed to have taken Basra? It was the day that all the news coverage blacked out and all the channels went back to normal programing)** This is just so much bullshit. Yes, we were on the brink of collapse that Infamous Sunday, and the coalition came within a hair of having to tuck tail and run back to Kuwait, hotly pursued by the Mighty Hand of Allah. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/33 "2003-04-14T13:16:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Uzi \* > \*\*But, then I look at the blathering idiot that is the Prime Minister of my own country and realize that we aren’t so different after all (at least regarding the typical voter).:rolleyes: \*\* No sweat, **Uzi**. Things are much more easily understood when you see can things in different shades of grey (and obviously you can) rather than in black and white. BTW, if it were up to me, I’d give you our Prime Minister. And, no, I wouldn’t want yours in exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/34 "2003-04-14T13:39:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quietman1920 \* > \*\*To say Syria is 100 Times stronger than Iraq is an understatement: they and isreal have been holding each other at bay for years, Unspoken Nuclear Capability and All. Their equipment has always been Soviet & French and there has never been a lack of spare parts. They have direct land routes to parts suppliers as well. We would have about as much luck invading Syria as we would North Korea: They also have a strong ally to the north who would counter-invade. \*\* Erm, who’s the strong ally to the north? And please provide a cite in support of your claims of military might, as all the documents I can find would appear to disagree. For example, [http://www.csis.org/stratassessment/reports/IsraelSyriaRealities.pdf](http://www.csis.org/stratassessment/reports/IsraelSyriaRealities.pdf) > [@](#): > > Syria…has made no major progress in finding a new source of military aid or arms, and its economy remains too weak to fund the modernization of its existing force structure, much less compete with Israel in creating new warfighting capabilities… > > …Syrian military expenditures have shrunk from about two-thirds of Israel’s in the mid-1980s to only about half the Israeli level. Similarly, Figure 8.3 shows that Syrian arms imports have shrunk from levels much higher than Israel’s in the late 1980s to levels that are only a fraction of Israel’s. One of the major reasons for this drop has been the end of the Cold War, and Russia’s growing financial problems. Russia has cut back on scheduled deliveries and has refused new orders that are not paid in cash since the Syrians defaulted on their loans to Russia… > > …Although Syria now has a total of some 4,650 tanks, at least 1,200 of these tanks are in static positions or in storage. Roughly half are relatively low-grade T-54s and T-55s, and only 1,500 > are relatively modern T-72s. Even the T-72s lack the advanced thermal sights, fire control systems, and armor to engage the Israeli Merkavas and M-60s on anything like a 1:1 basis. The > T-72 also performed surprisingly poorly in Iraqi hands during the Gulf War. Its armor did not prove to be as effective against modern Western anti-tank rounds as was previously expected, > and its sensors and fire control systems proved inadequate for night and poor visibility combat and could not keep up with Western thermal sights in range and target acquisition capability. ---
**Author:** ![diku](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@diku](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diku)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/35 "2003-04-14T13:47:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by djf750 \* > \*\*good. we are at war, remember? > > And I repeat from another post, if this was Clinton or Gore doing this, 99% of these protesters would be all for it. \*\* Fuck you. No, I wouldn’t. Nice pat answer: “If it was a Democrat, you would think it’s ok!” No, it fucking wouldn’t be ok. While I’m not sad at all to see Saddam gone, my biggest fear about the war is slowly coming to fruition. “Hey, Iraq was easy, now which other country should we invade over there. They’re all terrorists anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/36 "2003-04-14T13:48:13Z")
This link will only work for a day or two, but here’s [Tom Toles](http://www.uclick.com/client/wpc/tt/)’s succinct take on the issue. **Uzi** : > [@](#): > > The reason that the typical Arab is shooting at you is because his government/religious leader is telling him that the cause of all his woes is you. Until you remove those leaders and give him some perspective on what the actual causes of his misfortunes are (his government and religious leaders) he will not stop shooting. What the ‘typical Arab’ is doing doesn’t particularly bother me, because he’s 5000 miles away. I don’t see what he’s doing as justification to go in and overturn a sequence of Middle Eastern governments. If you disagree, please explain. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/37 "2003-04-14T14:16:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\ ***Uzi** : What the ‘typical Arab’ is doing doesn’t particularly bother me, because he’s 5000 miles away. I don’t see what he’s doing as justification to go in and overturn a sequence of Middle Eastern governments. If you disagree, please explain. \*\* I think the rational is that by creating prosperous democratic Arab states in the region then by example the other countries in the area will move in that direction. If al-Jazeera and others broadcast that to the rest of the Arab nations then their people will push for the necessary reforms to make it happen. A wealthy middle-class will want to keep things stable and those people who are terrorists will move further to the fringe. On the other hand by having a secular democratic government in the region might make the terrorists concentrate on it instead of places like the US. But that is just conjecture on my part. As noted in this and other threads the reasons given in the news tend to change over time. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/38 "2003-04-14T15:11:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Lobsang_ > I think it was a mistake to say that the iraq war was about WMD. I think it was about removing someone who was hated and who tortured his people, and who might have used his WMD to inflict mass casualties. In that case, why did the US bother with all that WMD with the UN? Why did Colin Powell make his pissy presentation? Why didn’t they just tell the UN that Saddam was being an ass to his people, and that they thought it was time for the world community to intervene in a peace-keeping capacity, as they did in, say, East Timor or as NATO did in the Balkans? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/39 "2003-04-14T15:48:12Z")
Oh wait, I know this one! It’s the “domino theory,” right? Because that worked out so well the last time! > [@](#): > > And I repeat from another post, if this was Clinton or Gore doing this, 99% of these protesters would be all for it. You said something this freakishly stupid and you’re actually so proud of it that you _repeated_ it?!? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546/40 "2003-04-14T15:48:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Uzi \* > \*\*I think the rational is that by creating prosperous democratic Arab states in the region then by example the other countries in the area will move in that direction. > \ > But that is just conjecture on my part. As noted in this and other threads the reasons given in the news tend to change over time. \*\* No, I’m asking what is _your_ rationale for taking the position you’ve taken? I can read about the Administration’s ever-changing rationale for war in the newspapers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-kiddies-looks-like-syrias-next/168546.md?page=3)