# We'll need a "Trump's Economy Wall" on the mall when this is over **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2020, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321 "2020-05-07T11:08:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/21 "2020-05-08T21:39:18Z")
Trump Economy Wall, huh? Do we get New Mexico to pay for it? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/22 "2020-05-08T21:55:05Z")
Here’s the numbers everyone needs to keep in mind. Covid 19 deaths by country: 1. United States - 78,492 2. United Kingdom - 31,241 3. Italy - 30,201 4. Spain - 26,299 5. France - 26,230 6. Brazil - 9,637 7. Belgium - 8,521 8. Germany - 7,468 9. Iran - 6,541 10. Netherlands - 5,359 11. China - 4,633 12. Canada - 4,567 13. Turkey - 3,689 14. Sweden - 3,175 15. Mexico - 2,961 16. India - 1,985 17. Russia - 1,723 18. Peru - 1,714 19. Switzerland - 1,823 20. Ecuador - 1,654 Out of the two hundred or so heads of state: Donald Trump has not done the best job. Donald Trump has not done a good job. Donald Trump has not done an average job. Donald Trump has not done a bad job. Out of the two hundred or so heads of state: Donald Trump has done the worst job. And it’s by a strong margin. He’s done more than twice as bad as Boris Johnson, who’s in second place. Donald Trump is the worst leader in the entire world. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/23 "2020-05-09T05:52:30Z")
This video points out that Trump hasn’t just done a terrible job in handling the medical crisis. He’s also done a terrible job in handling the economic crisis. [Why we’re seeing mass layoffs in the US but not the UK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaraFkhonFo) Another set of numbers Unemployment claims as share of labor force: United States: 14.8% Ireland: 11.4% Canada: 9.8% Iceland: 9.7% Turkey: 9.0% Norway: 4.8% United Kingdom: 4.1% Australia: 3.8% Austria: 3.7% Denmark: 3.1% Sweden: 1.9% Israel: 1.8% New Zealand: 1.6% Spain: 1.3% Mexico: 0.6% Source: [The effect of COVID-19 and disease suppression policies on labor markets: A preliminary analysis of the data](https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-effect-of-covid-19-and-disease-suppression-policies-on-labor-markets-a-preliminary-analysis-of-the-data/) Also: [Coronavirus hits European economies but governments help shield workers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/joblessness-is-rising-far-more-slowly-in-europe-than-in-the-us-during-the-pandemic-new-figures-show/2020/04/30/7a5a050a-8a5a-11ea-80df-d24b35a568ae_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/24 "2020-05-09T14:16:44Z")
**puddleglum** , do you think it’s coincidence that after Trump downplayed the pandemic and did virtually nothing, and putting clowns and bootlickers in charge of our response, the US has the WORST COVID outbreak in the world? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/25 "2020-05-09T16:21:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **puddleglum** , do you think it’s coincidence that after Trump downplayed the pandemic and did virtually nothing, and putting clowns and bootlickers in charge of our response, the US has the WORST COVID outbreak in the world? I’m guessing the new right wing narrative is “But Belgium!” It’s joined the list alongside Benghazi and e-mails. I’ll point out that Belgium apparently is trying to find out who has Covid 19 and who is dying of it. They’ve conducted 44,456 tests per million people. The American equivalent rate is 25,119. Which means that statistically, a lot more people are dying of Covid 19 in the United States without having ever been tested for it. So Belgium’s higher rate of Covid 19 deaths per capita is a reflection that they’re more aware of why people are dying. The Covid 19 death rate per capita in the United States is less accurate because of less testing and probably doesn’t reflect the real rate. Cite: [Rate of coronavirus (COVID-19) tests performed in the most impacted countries worldwide as of May 8, 2020 (per million population)](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-rate-select-countries-worldwide/) ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/26 "2020-05-10T08:32:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **puddleglum** , do you think it’s coincidence that after Trump downplayed the pandemic and did virtually nothing, and putting clowns and bootlickers in charge of our response, the US has the WORST COVID outbreak in the world? I think it’s no coincidence that making America a sicker, weaker, poorer nation serves enemy interests. I think some minion calculated that further waves of carnage make a good excuse for emergency martial law, internment of dissidents, etc. COVID handed this POTUS a golden opportunity to destroy the US. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/27 "2020-05-10T20:39:27Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > I think it’s no coincidence that making America a sicker, weaker, poorer nation serves enemy interests. I think some minion calculated that further waves of carnage make a good excuse for emergency martial law, internment of dissidents, etc. COVID handed this POTUS a golden opportunity to destroy the US. I doubt there’s this much planning going on in the Trump White House. I think the real reason Trump wants to end the lockdown is because he misses his rallies. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/28 "2020-05-11T01:22:24Z")
Forget the wall. What we’ll need is a Truth and Reconciliation Committee. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/29 "2020-05-11T07:46:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I doubt there’s this much planning going on in the Trump White House. I think the real reason Trump wants to end the lockdown is because he misses his rallies. It’s easy to think him that shallow; and with Fox psychos as his kitchen cabinet, he’s obviously untethered from certain realities. But he’s expended great effort to hide his financials because those will show that he is foreign-owned. And while no Deep Thinker himself, some of his minions seem slick, slimy, evil plotters. So don’t say it can’t happen. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Forget the wall. > > What we’ll need is a Truth and Reconciliation Committee. Remove cancer first. Heal later. And rather than a wall, plant trees. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/30 "2020-05-11T16:12:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, the worst case scenario is global nuclear annihilation. Every president (at least, so far) has avoided that, so they’re all responsible for saving billions of lives. I have also managed to avoid causing global nuclear annihilation (so far). When are those noble prize winning journalists going to give me some credit?! ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/31 "2020-05-11T16:23:16Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > Ah, this reminds me of this classic exchange on Twitter: > > [https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Screenshot-2018-2-24-Jess-Dweck-on-Twitter-Why-not…-.png](https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Screenshot-2018-2-24-Jess-Dweck-on-Twitter-Why-not%E2%80%A6-.png) I thought the best response to that tweet was “Why not? Would she get mad at you? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/32 "2020-05-11T17:49:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > In his first _year!_ What a piker!! > > The coronavirus has killed more Americans than that _ **in the past five weeks** _. > You mean, back when medical science was practically nonexistent by our standards? > > Not to mention, this thing’s just getting started. With states opening up, it’s hard to see how the death rate goes down much. We could lose that many people to the coronavirus. Absent a change of President by resignation, impeachment, or the 25th Amendment (which almost surely won’t happen), we could lose that many to the coronavirus before January 20. > > The thing is, we have a ton of knowledge about how to deal with a novel virus like this one. Hell, Obama’s people left a detailed playbook on this subject for the Trump people, they did a tabletop role-playing exercise with them during the transition, ranked it as one of the top three threats they might have to deal with, had a team on the NSC to take charge of dealing with the next pandemic - and _Trump threw all that away_. > > Then when this particular virus came along, Trump went into denial mode for two months, pretending that it barely existed here and would soon vanish, then pretended to be a ‘wartime President’ for a week or so, then dumped all the responsibility for dealing with **the worst worldwide pandemic since the 1918-1919 influenza epidemic** onto the states. And forced them to bid against each other (and his own agencies) for resources, and on those occasions when they won the bidding, his minions swiped the PPE, ventilators, test kits, etc. out from under him. > > The governor of my state was able to procure 500,000 testing kits from South Korea, and **he had to guard the damn things with the state police and the Maryland National Guard**. What insanity is this?? > > Not only does Trump have no idea what he’s doing, but he’s not willing to hire people who **do** know what they’re doing, and turn the whole thing over to them. > > The coronavirus isn’t his fault, but the absence of a coherent national response to it is **entirely** his fault. We might have had several thousand deaths under the best of responses, but we didn’t have to have anywhere near 77,000 deaths. Most of those deaths are on him. And we’ll almost surely have that many more to come, and all those deaths are on him. > > He **deserves** a memorial that says, “these are all the Americans Trump killed.” Because he did. A tabletop role playing game? I had no idea that boardgames could stop pandemics. I guess I should have remembered how Chutes and Ladders stopped the swine flu epidemic. Where did you get the idea that a scenario where only a couple thousand people die of the coronavirus? It is highly contagious and deadly. It has killed people in just about every country where they keep track. The US is the hub of the international economy, it has millions of people flying in from other countries. As yet there is no effective treatment so we have no idea how bad it is going to get or the factors that will determine it. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/33 "2020-05-11T17:57:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s the numbers everyone needs to keep in mind. > > Covid 19 deaths by country: > > 1. United States - 78,492 > 2. United Kingdom - 31,241 > 3. Italy - 30,201 > 4. Spain - 26,299 > 5. France - 26,230 > 6. Brazil - 9,637 > 7. Belgium - 8,521 > 8. Germany - 7,468 > 9. Iran - 6,541 > 10. Netherlands - 5,359 > 11. China - 4,633 > 12. Canada - 4,567 > 13. Turkey - 3,689 > 14. Sweden - 3,175 > 15. Mexico - 2,961 > 16. India - 1,985 > 17. Russia - 1,723 > 18. Peru - 1,714 > 19. Switzerland - 1,823 > 20. Ecuador - 1,654 > > Out of the two hundred or so heads of state: > Donald Trump has not done the best job. > Donald Trump has not done a good job. > Donald Trump has not done an average job. > Donald Trump has not done a bad job. > > Out of the two hundred or so heads of state: > Donald Trump has done the worst job. > > And it’s by a strong margin. He’s done more than twice as bad as Boris Johnson, who’s in second place. > > Donald Trump is the worst leader in the entire world. So it is Trump’s fault US has 30 times the population of Belgium? By this metric the best leader in the world is Pierre Nkurunziza, the eternal supreme guide of Burundi. I wonder if we could get a constitutional change, he would be interested in becoming US president? I am sure Biden could be persuaded to step down if such a good replacement was found. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/34 "2020-05-11T18:15:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **puddleglum** , do you think it’s coincidence that after Trump downplayed the pandemic and did virtually nothing, and putting clowns and bootlickers in charge of our response, the US has the WORST COVID outbreak in the world? The US does not have the worst outbreak in the world. We don’t know which country is the worst because China and Iran are not sharing correct information, each country is testing at different rates and most countries have not gathered the necessary data. For the most part it is coincidence. The US has a higher population than any European country and is more integrated into the global economy than India and China. That is why the US has more victims than other countries. Do you think it is coincidence that New York and New Jersey have democratic governors and have more deaths than every state with a republican governor combined, or is it as simple as vote for democrats and die? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/35 "2020-05-11T18:56:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Do you think it is coincidence that New York and New Jersey have democratic governors and have more deaths than every state with a republican governor combined No, it’s not a coincidence – NY and NJ very large states, population wise, and are centered around the biggest and most international city in the country, NYC. And of course the biggest and most international city in the country is going to be the first to see and feel the effects of an international pandemic (and therefore will have the most deaths at the beginning/early middle stages). And of course the biggest and most international city in the country is going to be lead by Democrats. Diverse city folk are the most fundamental part of the Democratic party base. Also, De Blasio is a shitty mayor and made many dumb decisions that got people sick and probably dead. So no, not a coincidence at all. And your suggestion that it’s not a coincidence that demonstrably abysmal management is occurring at the same time as the highest deaths is just ludicrous. Apparently you’re not even able to consider the possibility that Trump’s flaws actually can affect the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/36 "2020-05-12T02:35:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Did the president of Belgium put Jared Kushner in charge of a group trying to find needed medical supplies? Obviously not, as there is no president of Belgium. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/37 "2020-05-12T04:38:28Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > So it is Trump’s fault US has 30 times the population of Belgium? I responded to this post two days before you made it. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/38 "2020-05-12T04:59:25Z")
The fact that you can say this: > [@puddleglum](#): > > For the most part it is coincidence. The US has a higher population than any European country and is more integrated into the global economy than India and China. Immediately followed by this: > [@](#): > > Do you think it is coincidence that New York and New Jersey have democratic governors and have more deaths than every state with a republican governor combined, or is it as simple as vote for democrats and die? Is either hilarious or disturbing in it’s doublethink. Who could imagine that incredibly densely populated areas would have higher disease transmissions than more rural areas? Besides you, as the above quote shows, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/39 "2020-05-12T05:07:43Z")
And who could imagine that the 3rd most-populated country in the world could have the highest number of coronavirus deaths? And why is it that the second most densely-populated city in America has an absurdly low number of deaths? Could it be because Cuomo and DiBlasio actually made some really bad decisions? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321/40 "2020-05-12T16:01:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, it’s not a coincidence – NY and NJ very large states, population wise, and are centered around the biggest and most international city in the country, NYC. And of course the biggest and most international city in the country is going to be the first to see and feel the effects of an international pandemic (and therefore will have the most deaths at the beginning/early middle stages). And of course the biggest and most international city in the country is going to be lead by Democrats. Diverse city folk are the most fundamental part of the Democratic party base. > > Also, De Blasio is a shitty mayor and made many dumb decisions that got people sick and probably dead. > > So no, not a coincidence at all. > > And your suggestion that it’s not a coincidence that demonstrably abysmal management is occurring at the same time as the highest deaths is just ludicrous. Apparently you’re not even able to consider the possibility that Trump’s flaws actually can affect the real world. All of the reasons that New York has had a worse outbreak than Alabama are the same as the reasons the US has had a worse outbreak than Iceland. Cuomo is a a bad governor and has done a bad job with the outbreak and Trump is a bad president who has done a bad job with the outbreak. But in both cases the affect on the real world is small. If both had done everything the best experts had advised doing at precisely the time they advised doing it there would still have been an outbreak and New York and the US would both still be leading in death toll because of population size and connectedness to the global economy and possibly many other factors we don’t know about. If you look around the world, many countries and many different leaders are having worse outcomes than the US. That shows that the problem is not unique to the US unlike Trump who is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-need-a-trumps-economy-wall-on-the-mall-when-this-is-over/853321.md?page=3)