Dollar coins vs. dollar bills is largely a matter of opinion, I suppose, even though I think that many of the dollar bill proponents really haven’t thought the matter through. That pennies are useless, however, is an economic fact. Cecil Adams (four years ago) on the matter: Does it make sense to keep minting pennies?
You have this part backwards. People don’t use the coins because they still have the bills available. Stop printing bills and they will quickly start using the dollar coins.
I don’t usually get them as change, but I do spend them. As for the vending machines, all of them here in the middle of no where that I use do take them. And at least one of the change machines at work gives out 4 sackies and 4 quarters for a $5.
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- Where I am (30 mins outside of a big central US city) the only vending machines I have ever seen that accepted and/or gave dollar coins are the stamp vending machines at the post office. They accept and give as change SusanB’s, I dunno what they do with Sackies–though they are about the same size.
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- Where I am (30 mins outside of a big central US city) the only vending machines I have ever seen that accepted and/or gave dollar coins are the stamp vending machines at the post office. They accept and give as change SusanB’s, I dunno what they do with Sackies–though they are about the same size.
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“About the same size”??? Sackies are absolutely identical in size and weight to Suzies. They also have been carefully engineered to possess the same dielectric constant, despite being made of a very different alloy. The net result is that a machine cannot distinguish them from the older dollar coins. [Cite] One person has told me of a machine that will accept Suzies but not Sackies; however, I have yet to see it myself, and the information from the US Mint would seem to deny that such a machine exists.
<skeptic>
Yeah, the vending machine people probably own the change machine. They figure if no one wants the Sackie, they’ll just spend it in their machines.
</skeptic>
The $1 coin will not have widespread acceptance while there is a $1 bill IMO. Vending machines is just a niche.
Achernar, I can show you at least two vending machines that accept Suzies but not Sackies…it seems as if the machine won’t recognize it. Perhaps something caused the dielectric constant to change, or some other physical property?
Maybe I’m overly strange, but I use every denomination of coin (except the dollar coin cause there aren’t any around) regularly. I don’t see why folks get so fired up about getting rid of coins, or getting rid of dollar bills. Personally, I like bills better than coins. They are lighter, easier to fold into your wallet, and aggregate better than coins (10 bills can be thinner than 1 coin).
Besides, it looks to me like the public has pretty much spoken on this issue. In a time where both dollar coins and dollar bills were available and in circulation, people overwhelmingly chose bills. Now, some may say that is only because everyone else used bills, but imo, most people knew about them, and most people eschewed their use as anything more than a novelty. So why are people so opposed to dollar bills? To force people to use things they don’t want seems a little bit…pushy (I guess).
Sometime, though, you have to bite the bullet and recognize that it’s time to change. Japan used to print one-yen notes, and Mexico used to print one peso notes, but they don’t anymore. Why? Because they recognized it was stupid to print such small denominations. Britain used to print pound notes, and until perhaps 40 years ago a pound was a lot of money, so much so that people reckoned the prices of everyday purchases in shillings. But after inflation took about 90% out of the pound’s value, they stopped printing one-pound notes too, for the same reason. It’s stupid.
Who else does print small denomination paper? The Phillipines. Afghanistan. China. Are these really good models for a first world currency system? No. It’s stupid for us too, and it’s time we changed.
WHY is it stupid to print a lower denomination bill, though? The only convincing argument is from the Vending industry, and, frankly, I don’t think we should get rid of a good system because a special interest group says so. The public WANT bills, and they’ve clearly said that they don’t want coins. There’s not a single reason to change.
Ugh. I HATE one dollar bills. Hate, hate, hate. If we had $1, $5, and $10 coins, I would be very very happy.
Wait a minute, we do have $1 coins, don’t we? I keep forgetting… since I don’t think I’ve EVER seen a Sackie. Really. Well, maybe once when I got some from a vending machine, but other than that, nada.
Basically though, I greatly prefer carrying coins to bills except when making larger purposes. It has less to do with my wallet size and pocket linings than the fact that it’s so much easier to work with coins. Pull 'em out, count out three of 'em, drop em back into your wallet/pocket. Maybe I’m lazy, but I hate the folding and stuffing a wad of bills back into my wallet. It’s annoying in the extreme.
Okay, change “One person” in my last post to “Two people”. 
People who support the Sackie, circulate them! If you have a few minutes to spare one day, do this: Go into the bank with $50, and ask for two rolls of them! In my experience (in MA, AL, NJ, and PA) any bank will do. I do this once about every two weeks, and I’ve been almost $1 bill-free for the past couple of months.
Flymaster, please try this thought experiment. What would it be like if we had 25¢ bills instead of quarters? Would that be more convenient than the way things are now? Why or why not?
javaman said
You’re basically correct. Countries quit printing low denomination notes when the cost of printing exceeds the value of the note. Japan actually quit printing the one yen note around WWII. They quit printing 100 yen notes in 1969. The value of that note at the time was less than $1 US. Mexico quit 1 peso notes in 1970. But the value of the peso at that time was about 8 cents. It’s just that you could print a note pretty cheaply back then. Great Britain quit making the 1 pound note for the same reason: it was cheaper to make a coin which lasted longer, not that the value of the pound had plunged to some third world value. It was still significantly more than 1$US.
flymaster said
[QUOTE]
WHY is it stupid to print a lower denomination bill, though? The only convincing argument is from the Vending industry…
[QUOTE]
Not really.
If it costs significantly less to make a $1 coin (which has a longer life) than to print a $1 note(which has a short life), and you can save money, then that’s what you do. Rather, that’s what many countries in the world have done over the last 30 years. But not the US. I can name tens of countries that no longer have a banknote for an amount worth near the US $1. It costs them money to use such a luxury. The US keeps plodding along, actually costing themselves money by introducing the SBA in 1979 and abandoning it in 1981, then introducing the Sacagawea in 2000, and esentially abandoning it in 2002. The US Mint is a very politically dominated institution, as are many US government institutions. Until the political crap gets eliminated, the US will still use a dollar banknote, IMHO.
I have hopes my grandkids will not use a dollar bill. (But I’m practising holding my breath.)
Achernar, I try to circulate the Sackies I get as much as possible, but it is hard when the vending machines (sometimes my means of getting a meal!) do not accept them. I do use them in other transactions (when they occurr).
Also, Japan no longer prints 500yen notes, either (if they ever did). The smallest bill available is the 1000yen (about US$8). The coins are available in 1, 5, 10, 50, 100 and 500yen denominations.
And personally, I like it this way.
Frankly, yes, I’d rather have 25 cent notes than coins, and have expressed just such an opinion in more than one coin/bill debate. I’m sure I’m in the minority here, but I simply throw out change smaller than quarters. It’s not worth the hassle. A 25 cent bill would fit in my wallet and get rid of the problem of carrying any coins at all. I’d be first in line for it.
Second, to the cost issue. The reason a bill is impractical financially is the fact that it has an awfully short lifespan in circulation. However, there are much easier ways to deal with this problem, that are less of a problem for the general public, than by going to a coin. A switch to polymer based bills would last much longer in circulation while still remaining a easy to fold and carry note.
Maybe I’m in the minority by holding this pro bill opinion, but the experience with Sackies and Susan B. Anthony’s has shown, to me, anyway, that the public doesn’t particularly want a dollar coin. Again, the main proponent of the coin is the industry that stands to benefit most from making the dollar a throwaway that nobody wants to carry: the vending industry.
I get dollar coins all the time.
What?
While this is true, I don’t think the hoi polloi have a very good reason for wanting it that way. I think they’re just scared of change. (Ba dum-ching!) It sounds like you honestly think that bills are less of a hassle than coins, so I can accept your position. However, I do not agree with it at all. The way I see it, if we had $5 coins, I wouldn’t have to carry any money in my wallet at all. That would be a hassle-free situation.
I think part of the problem is that it’s been so long since we’ve significantly changed our coinage and - billage? (whatever) - that people really can’t wrap their brains around it. We’ve been issuing pretty much the same denominations of bills since 1913 (The exceptions include the short-lived 2$ bill in 1976, and various bills above $100 that few people ever used anyway), and the same denominations of coins for even longer. Hell, for the “basic four” coins - penny, nickel, dime and quarter - we haven’t changed the image on the front since the Roosevelt dime in '46.
So the images on our money are pretty sacrosanct, now. On an intellectual level, people know that a dollar’s worth a helluva lot less than it used to be but don’t want to admit that fact.
Add to that the simple reality that bills are more convenient than coins, and you have a recipe for recalcitrance.
I wish someone smarter than I am would beat these dollar-coin-hating-types about the head with cites.
Something along the lines of “A dollar bill costs X to make and lasts 18 months. On the other hand, a dollar coin costs X to make and lasts Y years. This means that your tax dollars are spending 5 dollars per dollar bill, but 25 cents per dollar coin”.
Or something like that.
Really, people, the Amecican economy will not fall apart and collapse just because paper bills go the way of the dinosaur. Promise!
Gee, I think if you read the first part of my message you quoted, you will see I said exactly that. The vending machine comments were just giving a counter example to Kat who had said she never saw a machine that would take a dollar coin.
But I would not say the vending machine industry is that small of a niche. They are the ones responsible for the fact that the sackies have the same physical characteristics as the Susan B. Not to mention the $100s of millions of dollars they put into the economy annually.
Lok