# Well, that'll teach you to lie to the police **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 4, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414 "2012-01-04T19:22:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/41 "2012-01-05T12:14:14Z")
> [@Earthworm\_Jim](#): > > It’s horrible, but I can understand how some of the bureaucratic screwups happen. But in the end, when it comes down to it, some group of people have to be escorting this terrified girl to an airplane, knowing that she’s destined for Columbia. And they don’t stop and say “Hang on, something’s wrong here.” Nope, it’s ‘just following orders’ all the way down. And what makes you think the people escorting her to the airplane are any more than some low level functionary in whatever branch of law enforcement deals with that stuff? Think about how your own job probably works. It’s not just everyone following orders. It’s that most people are following some small part of some order with no real visibility into the big picture. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/42 "2012-01-05T12:16:10Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > OR JUST LOOK AT THE GIRL’S DAMN FACE! Fifteen year old girls don’t look like twenty-two year old women. The length of the jaw and the proportions of jaw to cheekbones to forehead are completely different. Which is why most bars and R-rated movie theaters use face calipers! ---
**Author:** ![Lilacs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Lilacs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilacs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/43 "2012-01-05T13:09:44Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > The authorities would have access to the original Colombian woman’s arrest file, including full frontal and profile mug shots and fingerprints from all ten fingers. > > That and that alone should have prevented any mistaken identity. > > It’s standard procedure to fingerprint anyone any time they enter the judicial system for the exact reason of preventing criminals from claiming false identities. > > If there had been _any_ doubt, they could have gone all forensic anthropologist on her and x-rayed one of her long bones. The epiphyseal plate doesn’t seal permanently until all growth has finished - late teens at the very earliest. Or, check her for wisdom teeth. > > OR JUST LOOK AT THE GIRL’S DAMN FACE! Fifteen year old girls don’t look like twenty-two year old women. The length of the jaw and the proportions of jaw to cheekbones to forehead are completely different. > > ICE and the police fucked this one up, **JoelChurch** , and you sound like you’d just as soon leave an American child in a foreign country because you’d rather not face that uncomfortable possibility. Would they even have access to the file information from Colombia? Does the US Justice Department or Immigration work with other countries that closely? Wouldn’t it be more of a case that the false name was run through a database (like CGIS) and they got a “hit” on that name? I don’t think hiring a forensic anthropologist is in our budget for our detention center. I doubt it is in other counties in other states. What I don’t understand is, did she give a fake date of birth to begin with? Did she say “No, I have no social security number.” I mean, you don’t just accept someone’s identity based on name only. We’ve had kids come in to our juvenile detention center who lied about their names. We’ve also had one person say he was 17 when in fact he was 27. I don’t know if he thought no one would question it. As soon as we figured it out, he was shipped to the adult jail (with numerous reports written to account for the error.) Apparently in Texas, no one would have questioned it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/44 "2012-01-05T13:21:49Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I’m a little confused about the fact that she was tracked down through a Facebook page (unless I misread that somehow). If the girl was maintaining a Facebook page and wasn’t trying desperately to get home, I almost wonder if she’s done something illegal on purpose to keep the Colombian authorities from releasing her. Seriously, she had internet access and was more interested in bitching about work on Facebook than contacting the US embassy (or her family) regarding her wrongful deportation. I suspect that she didn’t put up much of a fight when they told her she was going to Colombia. If she REALLY didn’t want to go, I think she would have been able to say “Deported? Whoa, there fellas, I was lying about my name, I’m really Jakadrien Turner from 123 Main Street in Dallas, you can call my Grama, she’s in the phone book and everything.” ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/45 "2012-01-05T14:12:18Z")
All they had to do was check her prints and that’s supposed to be standard procedure. This is the first thing ICE did to my SO when they took him to the ICE section of the county jail. They ran his prints to see if he was wanted elsewhere and to check his criminal history. He could have given them a fake name but they had his prints. They screwed up. She may have lied but that doesn’t change the fact that they screwed up. This shows how careless they can be, and if they’re not allowed access to counsel this may happen more than people realize. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/46 "2012-01-05T18:11:02Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > The authorities would have access to the original Colombian woman’s arrest file, including full frontal and profile mug shots and fingerprints from all ten fingers. > > That and that alone should have prevented any mistaken identity. > > It’s standard procedure to fingerprint anyone any time they enter the judicial system for the exact reason of preventing criminals from claiming false identities. > > If there had been _any_ doubt, they could have gone all forensic anthropologist on her and x-rayed one of her long bones. The epiphyseal plate doesn’t seal permanently until all growth has finished - late teens at the very earliest. Or, check her for wisdom teeth. > > OR JUST LOOK AT THE GIRL’S DAMN FACE! Fifteen year old girls don’t look like twenty-two year old women. The length of the jaw and the proportions of jaw to cheekbones to forehead are completely different. > > ICE and the police fucked this one up, **JoelChurch** , and you sound like you’d just as soon leave an American child in a foreign country because you’d rather not face that uncomfortable possibility. Do you have any evidence that the Colombian Government gives foreign governments access to their computer systems or even that such records are computerized? You also seem to assume that anthropological exams are routine for criminal arrests. I frankly have known many girls and women that didn’t look anywhere close to their chronological age. I’ve known some women in the mid-twenties that could easily pass for someone in high school. Girls nowadays are really hard to tell. They are too frigging tall. It is kind of hard to realize that a girl that is 5’10" is only 14 years old or even 12, even when you have known them since they were a baby. It was sloppy work on the part of the authorities, but the girls created the problem when she lied about her identity. I personally would have been suspicious when a 22 year Colombian woman speaks English with an American accent. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/47 "2012-01-05T18:43:28Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > And they want to run your health care, too. [hijack] “They” already do – since, you know, they’re _people_. Exactly the same as the people who currently handle your health care. Can we please get rid of the nonsensical mindset that “the government” is some mystical entity that is better or worse than private enterprise? There are screwups with 30 years in private practice and career government workers who you’d give anything running your business. This girl wound up where she did because _people_ fucked up, not because “the gummint” fucked up. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Lincoln\_Pringle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lincoln\_Pringle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lincoln_Pringle)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/48 "2012-01-05T18:56:10Z")
This was a crazy situation. Can’t believe our government could screw up so badly…wait, did I actually say that, lol. Lincoln Pringle ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/49 "2012-01-05T19:21:33Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > The authorities would have access to the original Colombian woman’s arrest file, including full frontal and profile mug shots … Mug shots have full frontal now? Sweet! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/50 "2012-01-06T07:15:05Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Not really. I don’t know how it stands right now, but US Customs Officers used to have the right to refuse you entry with very little explanation and no recourse. Get off the plane or ship, get on line, get told “I don’t like your face” (my cousin was rejected coming back from a casino ship on grounds of ‘attractive single Hispanic female’; the officer in charge of Citibank operations for LAR on grounds of ‘comes into the country too often’), get put in a room with or without other people, with or without food, with or without a toilet, get put on a plane home. Just for the record, I am _totally_ opposed to an immigration policy of barring attractive single Hispanic females from entering this country. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/51 "2012-01-06T09:35:41Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I suspect that she didn’t put up much of a fight when they told her she was going to Colombia. If she REALLY didn’t want to go, I think she would have been able to say “Deported? Whoa, there fellas, I was lying about my name, I’m really Jakadrien Turner from 123 Main Street in Dallas, you can call my Grama, she’s in the phone book and everything.” Of course, as I saw pointed out elsewhere, she shouldn’t have had to do so anyway; ICE should’ve figured it out for themselves. That they didn’t is a black mark against them. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/52 "2012-01-06T10:36:46Z")
This is not the first case of an American citizen being deported, there have been other cases in the southern US although they were hispanic(should ICE be applauded for ignoring race?). Basically its very easy for this to happen if 1.You are arrested without ID, or have none and it would be difficult to confirm your identity. 1. Someone in the police department decides to report you to ICE because you’re without ID or some other reason and when ICE shows up you don’t argue your case or answer questions. > **[Opinion: Immigration: Another U.S. citizen deported](https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/opinion-la/story/2012-01-05/opinion-immigration-another-u-s-citizen-deported)** > > This article was originally on a blog post platform and may be missing photos, graphics or links. > [@](#): > > Last month, The Times reported that at least four U.S. citizens were detained in Los Angeles County over the last two months. And in 2007, Pedro Guzman, a mentally disabled man who is illiterate, was deported from Los Angeles to Tijuana even though he was born in this country. Guzman spent months in Mexico sleeping on the streets. Other cases have also popped up in recent years, and a study by a UC Berkeley think tank suggests the number is much higher. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/53 "2012-01-06T18:53:55Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Not really. I don’t know how it stands right now, but US Customs Officers used to have the right to refuse you entry with very little explanation and no recourse. Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, you’re speaking about two entirely different branches of ICE. The people at the border work for CBP. They’re under DHS, not ICE. Entering the country is not “immigration”, which involved applying for visas, permits, and residency. That’s all under ICE, an entirely separate part of DHS. ICE has a subdivision called [ERO](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement#Enforcement_and_Removal_Operations_.28ERO.29). That’s who deports people. Second, deportation is a legal proceeding. You have a right to have your removal challenged in a court of law, and deportations must be ordered by a judge in a “removal proceeding”. They are NOT automatic and they are NOT at the whim of some type of cop. Third, there’s more to this than meets the eye. There has to be. It just doesn’t make sense and doesn’t jibe with any of my immigration experience. She had to have been trying to get deported, or perhaps she wasn’t deported at all. My guess would be that she did a “voluntary withdrawal” which essentially means ICE says “We’re going to try to deport you” and she goes “Don’t waste the effort. Peace out!”. Fourth, _Onesie_ is probably pronounced ‘Onzi’, which is a [Lugbara](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugbara_language) name for ‘Bad’. If that sounds like a terrible name, consider that Jacob essentially means “trickster”. It literally means “heel”, which itself is a slang term meaning a loser, jerk, or mischievous person. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/54 "2012-01-06T19:09:27Z")
The same thing happened to Harold and Kumar, when they got sent to Guantanamo Bay. Thankfully, they escaped. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/55 "2012-01-06T19:10:53Z")
Since she steadfastly asserted her being an adult Columbian over an extended period, including a criminal trial, I can see why she was treated as if she was who she claimed to be. Could be worse. At least she didn’t get pregnant while partying during her excursion . . . ([oh, wait a minute](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/tex-teen-mistakenly-deported-to-colombia-assumed-false-identity/2012/01/05/gIQApAzscP_blog.html)). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/56 "2012-01-06T19:36:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There is certainly a right to counsel if you’re arrested, which she was, which is what started this bizarre story. Not in removal proceedings, though - those are viewed as civil matters, and so you only have the right to representation by counsel if you can afford it or find a sympathetic nonprofit. If you cannot afford a lawyer, no lawyer will be provided for you. Which is actually pretty horrible, since removal proceedings are (a) devestating in themselves, and (b) can involved extended periods of detention. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/57 "2012-01-06T19:51:24Z")
Ok, so she not only held on to the identity, but per the last article posted, maintained a [Facebook account](https://www.facebook.com/tsolotoolonq) and [Twitter](https://twitter.com/?ref=nf&utm_campaign=ItsTikithia_Duh&utm_content=112597895831752704&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=fb#!/ItsTikithia_Duh) under the fake name. Her boyfriend also has a [Facebook page](https://www.facebook.com/alejandroyoel?sk=wall) with a bunch of people now attacking him for impregnating a minor. > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Not in removal proceedings, though - those are viewed as civil matters, and so you only have the right to representation by counsel if you can afford it or find a sympathetic nonprofit. If you cannot afford a lawyer, no lawyer will be provided for you. Which is actually pretty horrible, since removal proceedings are (a) devestating in themselves, and (b) can involved extended periods of detention. That last posted article says she had an attorney, as well as full trial proceedings. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/58 "2012-01-06T20:02:13Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Ok, so she not only held on to the identity, but per the last article posted, maintained a [Facebook account](https://www.facebook.com/tsolotoolonq) and [Twitter](https://twitter.com/?ref=nf&utm_campaign=ItsTikithia_Duh&utm_content=112597895831752704&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=fb#!/ItsTikithia_Duh) under the fake name. That was some article. \*Turner told police that she was an adult from Colombia with no legal status in the United States, and went through an entire trial, was charged, convicted and served time under the name Tika Lanay Cortez. Records from court indicated that it convicted a 21-year-old woman from Columbia. Her defense attorney believed that to be true as well. Upon her conviction, ICE says Turner was referred to them, where she continued to maintain a false identity during immigration court proceedings. The agency did fingerprints and record checks to verify that the woman was Tika Lanay Cortez, and nothing came up to invalidate her claim. When she went before an immigration lawyer, Turner continued to say she was a Colombia woman. She was interviewed at the Colombian consulate, where she also kept up the false identity.\* Looks like she knew exactly what she was doing. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/59 "2012-01-06T20:04:22Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Ok, so she not only held on to the identity, but per the last article posted, maintained a [Facebook account](https://www.facebook.com/tsolotoolonq)… Interesting. Her Facebook page claims she’s from Bridgetown, Barbados, which means that she wasn’t born in the US, and (depending on when she came to the US) probably did not have an American accent. None of that excuses ICE, but it might explain why the mismatch between her and the Columbiana wasn’t as apparent. Also, perhaps, if she wasn’t a US citizen (do we know?) she might have known she was going to be deported and decided Columbia was as good as Barbados. There still has to be more going on than we see, though. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414/60 "2012-01-06T20:06:45Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Not in removal proceedings, though - those are viewed as civil matters, and so you only have the right to representation by counsel if you can afford it or find a sympathetic nonprofit. If you cannot afford a lawyer, no lawyer will be provided for you. Which is actually pretty horrible, since removal proceedings are (a) devestating in themselves, and (b) can involved extended periods of detention. Thanks for clarifying that, Mr. Excellent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-thatll-teach-you-to-lie-to-the-police/608414.md?page=4)