# Well, the Islamic fundys did it again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204 "2003-11-09T07:04:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/21 "2003-11-09T15:16:32Z")
**Aldebaran** , What do you think motivated the attackers to do what they did? If you were to ask the attackers what their religion was, how do you suppose they’d answer? Haj ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/22 "2003-11-09T15:18:45Z")
**Aldebaran,** if Muslims are forbidden to murder, but some people who murder are devout Muslims, what does that suggest about the religion? That maybe the devout followers don’t follow so devoutly? And where is the condemnation that would be expected from the Muslim community/clergy if this action is so reprehensible? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/23 "2003-11-09T15:41:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Maybe you could blame for these actions equally the Western governments who support a regime that blatantly disregards every basic human right and that is on its own - merely by being established - a hijack of the religion Islam? Maybe I could blame the actions on the fuckheads who actually set off the bombs. But hey, that’s just me. The fact that mainly non-westerners were victims may be due more to error by the bombers than anything else. Perhaps they felt the authorities were closing in and thus they were in a “use it or lose it” situation, and the location of the bombing was a hastily chosen secondary target. Pure speculation on my part, of course. As for the the designation “religious”, well, there’s cetainly some room for debate there, especially since assignment of blame (to al-Queda, according to Saudi authorities) also is mostly speculation at the moment. Al-Queda [clearly considers itself to be a defender of Islam](http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP60103), even if most muslim auhorities may not agree with that designation. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/24 "2003-11-09T16:04:10Z")
You do realize that if I wished to slander your religion, I’d point to the blind, knee-jerk, defense of Islam as a sign of heavy indoctrination aka “brainwashing.” I would then use you as my first exhibit. Your position that Moslems cannot do anything evil as they then cease to follow Islam, naturally flows from your religion’s claim to be the inspired (and final) word of God. In effect, you are a Moslem and cannot help yourself. You must defend your religion at all costs. Therefore, your statements must be given substantially less weight than if they were made by someone who had not been indoctrinated or “brainwashed.” Regardless, last night’s murderers did their killing while proclaiming their devotion to your religion and your God. Admittedly not your particular sect, but your religion nonetheless. You make the claim that they couldn’t possibly be Moslems, but they were surely convinced otherwise. So, who should I believe is the “true” representative of your religion? The guy who sits in Belgium sniping at the US? or the man with courage of his convictions? While we’re on the subject, I’d suggest that you dial-back the condesceding assumptions about what I and others know or don’t know about Islam. I have learned sufficient of the Islamic religion and practices for my needs as I have no intention of either becoming an Islamic scholar or converting. Life in a quasi-theocracy has not impressed me with the alleged superiority of the Islamic religion. And peace be upon you as well. Testy ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/25 "2003-11-09T16:08:04Z")
Actually I’m the GM of a small IT company here and could leave any time I wished, especially as business hasn’t been too good lately. _S_ I actually rather like Saudi. It is somewhat old-fashioned about certain things but there are aspects of that I enjoy. Until recently, it has been a reasonable good place to raise a family. Admittedly an adaptable family. All the best Testy ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/26 "2003-11-09T16:14:04Z")
There have been quite a few instances of suicidal murderers over the centuries. I make no claims of being a historian but I’ve certainly heard of it before. I believe the Filipino Moros used the tactic occasionally as well. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/27 "2003-11-09T16:23:29Z")
There have been quite a few instances of suicidal murderers over the centuries. I make no claims of being a historian but I’ve certainly heard of it before. I believe the Filipino Moros used the tactic occasionally as well. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/28 "2003-11-09T16:28:25Z")
Thank you for the kind thoughts. Saudi is actually a pretty safe place. You’d never know it from watching the news but it actually is. Best regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![alibey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@alibey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alibey)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/29 "2003-11-09T17:12:23Z")
Hello from the east side of Riyadh. I didn’t get the call until 2 in the morning. This is an interesting place to live. driving here makes driving in the US and Canada look tame. As far as what was going on through the minds of the terrorists, who can say. They (all, not just this group) have their own twisted logic about things, remember last week a cell was uncovered that was planning attacks on Mecca. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/30 "2003-11-09T18:52:55Z")
Somehow it seems that people interested in the “root causes” of terrorism are only interested when the US can be pointed to as the “root cause”. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/31 "2003-11-09T18:55:34Z")
Huh? Wait a minute… When Aldebaran surfaced here, I seem to recall him claiming to be from Belgium or Holland or some such… Let’s see… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > Well, you’re not all that wrong about Belgium. > My mother was Belgian (Flemish) and I’m actually in Belgium right now 🙂 \*\* From the first [pitting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=192310&perpage=50&pagenumber=3) of Alde. And also living in Europe, being a student, with an Arabian horse, and having a masters degree in studies of European History. Whatever. And I’m glad you’re OK Testy. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/32 "2003-11-09T19:00:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fang \* > \*\*Somehow it seems that people interested in the “root causes” of terrorism are only interested when the US can be pointed to as the “root cause”. \*\* No, only when it is. The US has nothing whatsoever to do with Baader Meinhoff, the Red Faction, the IRA, the UVF, ETA, FARC, the Tamil Tigers, etc. etc. Perhaps some people actually have selective perceptions of who “terrorists” constitute… ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/33 "2003-11-09T19:12:05Z")
Good to hear of another Saudi Doper. And glad to hear we haven’t got one less today. So, what is your betting? Another one tonight? Wait until Eid? Or wait longer? I’m betting on Eid, myself, but wouldn’t be surprised if something happened sooner. All the best Testy ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/34 "2003-11-09T19:14:36Z")
Thanks for the good thoughts. As far as my friend **Aldebaran,** goes, he has to say what he says. The guy has no choice. I get Saudis popping out with his kind of half-assed justifications all the time. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/35 "2003-11-09T21:23:53Z")
**Testy & Saudi Dopers** Good to hear you’re okay. Stay safe. as for Aldebaran. Never mind her. She’s probably in Antwerp, peeling brussel sprouts. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/36 "2003-11-09T21:32:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*No, only when it is. The US has nothing whatsoever to do with Baader Meinhoff, the Red Faction, the IRA, the UVF, ETA, FARC, the Tamil Tigers, etc. etc. > > Perhaps some people actually have selective perceptions of who “terrorists” constitute… \*\* Perhaps some people, but not me. I’m well aware that all those groups constitute (or constituted) terrorist groups thankyouverymuch. My post was largely directed at **Aldebaran** (though there are many who fall victim to the same error), who likes to talk about “root causes” but refuses to consider that the root cause might be ideological. I also don’t understand why he can just say these shitheads are not Muslims but he is. If it were even possible to say what a “true Muslim” is, I guess one would have to judge by the Five Pillars, which they contravene no more than he does. But I guess more than that I’m pissed off that I haven’t heard of any outcry, any protests against al-Q in the Muslim world after they do something like this. At some point between Sept 11 and Oct 7 (the day when strikes on Afghanistan started), 2001, there was a 6,000-person protest in Indonesia **against** the US. **Before** the US even took action against the thugs who attacked it. Now you don’t hear of any protest when the same motherfuckers kill not only more people in the name of Islam, but actually target Muslims, **during Ramadan**. And I don’t mean the emir of Kuwait releasing an official statement, I mean the same kind of anger you see in anti-US demonstrations all the time. Far be it from me to quote Bob Dole, but where is the outrage? I suppose I’ve gone off on something of a tangent here, but I’d like to say that not everybody who disagrees with you on the causes (if one can even talk intelligently about such a thing) of Islamic terrorism is ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/37 "2003-11-09T21:38:15Z")
OK **Fang** , I got you wrong on your first post, which wasn’t very clear, but I do apologise. > [@](#): > > **But I guess more than that I’m pissed off that I haven’t heard of any outcry, any protests against al-Q in the Muslim world after they do something like this.** I’m guessing fragmentation, or lack of publicity for liberal spokespeople - and when I say lack of publicity, there may be 24/7 outrage being expressed on Al Jazeera for all I know, because Islamic/Arabic opinion is rarely reported in the western media. The victims in this instance were Muslims. If there’s no condemnation of _this_, I think we have to conclude that it’s just not their style. ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/38 "2003-11-09T21:45:15Z")
Fang, I did find [this story of Saudi “outrage”](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20031109/ts_nm/security_saudi_mood_dc_1), for what it’s worth. Of course, it’s a Reuters story, which means the TERRORISTS are so delicately described as “Muslim militants.” Remember Reuters’ golden rule, one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter." :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/39 "2003-11-09T22:25:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > … there may be 24/7 outrage being expressed on Al Jazeera for all I know, because Islamic/Arabic opinion is rarely reported in the western media… In this age of the Internet, screw the western media. Here’s [Al-Jazeera online.](http://zapatopi.net/bsa.html) And with reference to **GoHeels** ’ post, Al-Jazeera doesn’t call them freedom fighters or terrorists but [“Islamist dissidents.”](http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6A70C791-B34B-4910-A517-7AC73F4680B2.htm) George Orwell would be proud. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/40 "2003-11-09T22:25:51Z")
**GoHeels** , I fail to see the point of your rolleyes. By identifying the perpetrators as _Muslim_ militants, it clearly spoke against **Aldebaran** ’s [No true Muslim](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) fallacy. They also quoted people who _did_ identify the perpetrators as terrorists: > [@](#): > > “What Islam is this? They are terrorists,” said Hamdan Youssef, a 39-year-old businessman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204.md?page=3)