# Well, the Islamic fundys did it again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204 "2003-11-09T07:04:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/61 "2003-11-10T11:56:43Z")
First, I’m glad all Saudi 'dopers are OK. And, I wish to state my condolences to any Saudis who have lost their loved ones, for the loss of innocent lives. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Testy \* > \*\*There are things about religion, not just Islam but almost all of them, that I consider horrible. People do terrible things in the name of religion and are proud of it. It could be the Inquisition or driving a car full of C4 into a residential area and detonating it as was done last Saturday. > > It would seem that there is **nothing** , no act at all, that is so despicable that it cannot be justified in the name of religion. As soon as some loon believes that the Creator, the Architect of the Universe has a personal message for _him_, any requirement for common human decency becomes null and void. The inquisitors lit the fires and justified their acts with pious words from the Bible. Last Saturday’s murderers believed they were killing the apostate to “purify” their religion and help spread its obvious message of peace and tolerance throughout the world. > > Further, when some particularly horrible act is done (as in Last Saturday) people suddenly start claiming that the perpetrator isn’t really a “true” Moslem, Christian, Jew, fill-in-the-blank. The problem is that they were. The bombers were just as much a Moslem as Aldebaran, if not more. They would have despised him as being weak and lacking in faith. The monks that ran the Inquisition were also good Christians.\*\* Hear, Hear! I think the major problem with the “(s)he _isn’t really a “true” Moslem, Christian, Jew, fill-in-the-blank_” crowd is that these actions are often **aided and abetted** by religious leaders calling on their believers to commit these very acts of terrorism. Christian leaders calling for believers to kill abortion doctors. Muslim imams calling for genocide in the name of _Jihad_. Jewish rabbis calling for ethnic cleansing of the “homeland” in the name of the _Torah_ (yeah, we have our own loons… :(). IMO, this is just another case of “the fish stinking from the head” as we say in Hebrew… Dan Abarbanel ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/62 "2003-11-10T12:23:20Z")
Is that saying about the fish something ancient? I know the Greek Cypriots say the same thing. Just idle curiousity. It seems that regardless of their good intentions, religions inevitably get hijacked by someone wanting power. Unfortunately, the rank and file tend to support them. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/63 "2003-11-10T12:34:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Testy \* > **Is that saying about the fish something ancient? I know the Greek Cypriots say the same thing. Just idle curiousity.** Dunno. Never saw it in scripture, but my knowledge of it **is** limited. Probably got imported into Hebrew from some Eastern European language (or maybe even from Greek) sometime in the last 100 years or so… > [@](#): > > \*\* > It seems that regardless of their good intentions, religions inevitably get hijacked by someone wanting power. Unfortunately, the rank and file tend to support them.\*\* Yup:( Religion is just another Power Structure, waiting for the ambitious and corrupt to take it over and corrupt it. Dan Abarbanel ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/64 "2003-11-10T14:51:16Z")
I am waiting for the blame to be put on the CIA, US Special Forces, Zionists or (fill-in-the -blank as long as it isn’t a Muslim):rolleyes: I’ve heard some of these stirring already after the Mecca shoot out. Jeeze! ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/65 "2003-11-10T15:05:27Z")
Nobody is _blaming religion_. To try to understand the latest violence you have to understand Islam, Usama, terrorism, and internal Saudi politics just to ante up to the table. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/66 "2003-11-10T15:18:52Z")
I’m smart enough to know I don’t know diddly about the last one except that it is VERY important. Controlling the center of Islam is key to Usama’s [rubs hands together, _excellent_ [master](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/network/alqaeda/indictment.html) plan. The religious and the secular have a tenuous, at best, relationship with one another _wink_ in Saudi Arabia. Saudi really is [unique.](http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2003/s918001.htm) _double wink_ Run. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/67 "2003-11-11T05:33:11Z")
I expect to hear something similar shortly. As the attack killed Arabs/Moslems it could not possibly have been the work of _other_ Arabs/Moslems and must have been done by the Jews/Zionists/CIA/anybody else. Have you been watching the flap over Tash-ma-Tash? They are threatening to ban the program. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/68 "2003-11-11T05:57:15Z")
**Testy** , I hope you are well, and wish safety and peace to you and your family. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Testy \* > > As the attack killed Arabs/Moslems it could not possibly have been the work of _other_ Arabs/Moslems and must have been done by the Jews/Zionists/CIA/anybody else. Is there anything that could open you to this notion? Can you conceive of any evidence I could present that might make you change your mind? Respectfully, same question to you, **eenerms**. I hope you also remain safe. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/69 "2003-11-11T06:38:33Z")
Thank you for your good wishes and I hope you and yours are also safe and well. As far as acceptable evidence that “others” did the bombing, I’m not sure what that would be. It would have to be of the smoking-gun variety to be convincing. I do agree that this attack will benefit the “others” more than the hyper-Islamic types but believe that is simply a miscalculation on the part of AQ. Why is the attack on fellow Moslems so difficult to accept? Moslems have killed other Moslems in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places in the recent past. OBL and his cronies have killed quite a few themselves, some incidental ones (WTC attack) and quite a few others for being insufficiently devout. (Afghanistan) No remorse was shown in either case. Regards and all the best to you in Ramadan. Testy ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/70 "2003-11-11T11:11:34Z")
I’m not sure whether it will be confirmed but a Google-News search for Riyadh shows AQ claiming “credit” for the murder of the people in Riyadh last Saturday. The source was Fox news so I have a seious distrust of it unless other sources confirm it. Regards. Testy ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/71 "2003-11-11T12:23:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Testy \* > \*\*I expect to hear something similar shortly. As the attack killed Arabs/Moslems it could not possibly have been the work of _other_ Arabs/Moslems and must have been done by the Jews/Zionists/CIA/anybody else. > > Have you been watching the flap over Tash-ma-Tash? They are threatening to ban the program. > > Regards > > Testy \*\* Yes about the Tash-ma-Tash. It seems that every Ramadam I have been here they have tried to ban it. When it was carried on Saudi 2 IIRC, it was. There is an OP-ED in the Arab News today 11/11/03 about it. Also in the same paper is a quote from Prince Alwaleed ibn Talal: \*\* and enough of the naivete that says those behind the attacks are Israelis, and enough of the naivete that says those who planned the attacks were more in-depth in their thinking than Saudis\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/72 "2003-11-11T12:50:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Also in the same paper is a quote from Prince Alwaleed ibn Talal: > and enough of the naivete that says those behind the attacks are Israelis, and enough of the naivete that says those who planned the attacks were more in-depth in their thinking than Saudis Finally. It seems to take a lot but I suppose personal danger is a great “wake-Up” call. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![alibey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@alibey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alibey)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/73 "2003-11-11T13:00:08Z")
Tash-ma-tash? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/74 "2003-11-11T13:12:41Z")
They used to have a crush on the “bad boy” Usama image. Settling down with guys like that is difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/75 "2003-11-11T13:57:31Z")
tash-ma-tash is a program shown during Ramadan. The show is produced locally by a couple of Saudi guys using amateur equipment. The show points out areas of Saudi society that are generally hidden. Things like corruption, influence peddling, theft, whatever. It is funny as hell. The guys making the show do a good enough job that even those who do not speak Arabic can understand it. The show points out flaws in society without being too edgy. In the US, a show like this wouldn’t even be commented on but for the Kingdom it is quite daring. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/76 "2003-11-11T16:09:04Z")
**Testy** what was the reaction after the bombing in Morocco amongst Saudi Muslims? Aside from it not being Saudis that died it was Muslims targeted by Muslims. How is the recent attack any different to the Saudis? To everyone in the region, be safe. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/77 "2003-11-11T17:40:03Z")
OK… here we go again. It was surely predictable. We see a post where someone claims that people who blow themselves up killing thelmselves together with a lot of complete innocent complete strangers give… and I quote : _“After all, they have sufficient belief to deliberately kill themselves. What greater demonstration of faith could someone ask?”_ end quote I read this nonsense and I say that they give the best proof of the opposite by doing what they do = they have no clue about their religion and its commands. Next we see a whole group popping up to make the claim that I defend terrorists and whatever they write “about” me and “who I am” and “how I reason”… I find these kind of evolutions on this message board very funny to read. But can someone now finally explain how you manage to do this every time again? I mean: you make it your hobby to twist and turn every word, every sentence every intention until it fits your twisted view. I’m stunned… I didn’t know I would find such gifted artists here. Really. By the way: Since when is having a mother who came from an other country making you less a citizen from your father’s country and forbidding you to live your life there and forbid you t go whenever you like to your mother’s country and fobids you to have studied wherever you like? I find this also a very funny conclusion and it is also one that miraculously keeps popping up in a few variatons. You most certainly never have heard about the existence of airplanes and other evolutions. So for your information: These days there aren’t weeks of being underway needed anymore to go from one house to an other even if they are in different countries and even if those countries have extremely different cultures. Do you need a drawing or is this understandable? Thank you for the laugh anyway. Now for the more serious attempts to get an idea of what the aim of these terrorists may be, I can give you some of my options on this: 1. If they are really AQ based their goal can vary between simply creating chaos, aiming aginst “foreigners” who “work for/with the US friendly regime” , exposing the lack of security that can be provided by that regime, exposing the incompetence of the monarchy and whatever can lay in and between all of this. This comment given presuming that this shadowly operating organisation as a real organized and structured operating entity exists; it is not because you give it a name that it is also a reality as viewed by the outside world. And I very much doubt that even if it had at a certain moment a good structured and centralized command and all its cells were at a certain point in time “under control” that this still is the case. Much more likely that it is not at all. I’m not the only one who says this and not the only one who warned for this fractionising before the US destroyed that centralised command, or what was percieved as such. 2. If they are not AQ - which is at this early moment in observation more my option - then they are certainly politically inspired. That is in my opinion also a good reason for the Saudis to blame it on AQ = to divert on a very easy way the attention from the internal problems. Salaam. A Now getting ready for the travel to the UK… I need to be there by the 5the of december. So seen the fact that there are miraculously no planes anymore around… Or other contemporan means of transport… I better start walking now and I shall also need to swimm for a rather long time. If I ever get exhausted and die or if I get drowned, I’ll let you know. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/78 "2003-11-11T18:12:56Z")
As far as the bombings in Morocco go, the Saudis seem to have ignored it. I heard nothing about it either way. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/79 "2003-11-11T18:13:33Z")
Please do, we’ll have a wake. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204/80 "2003-11-11T18:23:25Z")
Of course Grey. I really count on that. And on lots of cheers and of course no tears. Salaam. A Thinking now about who is fit enough to carry my lugage on the long trip ahead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-the-islamic-fundys-did-it-again/212204.md?page=5)