# Well, this is different. Garland shooting: 2 killed after they open fire at Mohammed cartoon event. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2015, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224 "2015-05-04T09:35:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/21 "2015-05-05T10:55:51Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > While he’s greatly overestimating the number of [jihadis](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/26/opinion/bergen-schneider-how-many-jihadists/), you are greatly underestimating the number of [Muslims](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world) in the world. If that was his intent then I stand corrected, but it sounds as if he was saying that all Muslims needed killin’. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/22 "2015-05-05T11:04:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I sincerely hope you read this over again and see the huge problem with this sentiment. Even if you restrict yourself to violent Christians, you’re saying they are more worthy of a police-administered death penalty than other violent people. > > Heck, you actually uttered the words “this is a hate group I can get behind.” No I’m saying attempted mass murderers driven by religious nuttery are worthy of a police administered death penalty. If they can take them down non-violently I’m cool with that too. Yes I uttered “this is a hate group I can get behind.” because most hate groups I just can’t support, they hold disgusting views. But if this group is really basically “anti-religious murdering nut” or just likes defending the first amendment by riling up violent nuts then it is the RARE hate group I’m cool with. Get it. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/23 "2015-05-05T11:12:14Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > First, find them. Do you have any serious candidates? I mean, other than the truly fringe groups leftists are desperately trying to exaggerate into a threat greater than radical Islam. > > “Piss Christ”? No violence. Ofili’s “Holy Mother Mary”? Had paint thrown over it. PZ Myers’ troll of his intent to defile the Catholic Eucharist? Threats. You’d have to up the ante. Maybe an invasion of a Catholic church and using the Eucharist in a homosexual act. But I wouldn’t count on it. There was a time abortion providing doctors were being murdered by violent christians. You also have the various cults like the Branch Davidians responsible for Waco, there are more of these types out there. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/24 "2015-05-05T12:53:26Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > They weren’t pros. > Possibly thought that full-auto would make up for a lack of shooting skills. Tru dat, but still a hell of a job by the police officer. Wonder how Pam Geller, who used to blog as Atlas Shrugs, IIRC, feels about having been rescued from these crazies by a government worker. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/25 "2015-05-05T13:04:15Z")
> [@Bibliovore](#): > > By “couple hundred million more dumbasses”, I take it you mean Muslims in general? Am I reading that right? That all we need is a couple hundred million more bullets to put in their heads? I mean a subset of Muslims. Ones that believe stuff they find religiously offensive should be dealt with by death or serious jail time. Its a significant percentage of worldwise Muslims that believe that crap. Take a few billion, multiply that by a decent fraction, and there you have a few hundred million give or take. Yeah, if I could flip a switch that would kill every religious asshole of any persuasion that though being regliously offended gave them the right to punish other people through physical means I’d flip that switch in a heatbeat. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/26 "2015-05-05T14:05:38Z")
FWIW, the N. Texas Islamic community has been falling all over themselves to publicly denounce those two dickbags who attacked the contest / Geert Wilders, even though the “American Freedom Defense Initiative’s Muhammad Art Exhibit and Contest” was essentially an example of real-life trolling. In a sense, those two dead clowns played right into these assholes’ hands. That said, I think that this ought to be where we draw the line. It seems like EVERY time there’s a public portrayal of Muhammad in the Western world, there are either death threats (Jyllands-Posten business), assassinations (Charlie Hebdo), or attempted attacks (the stuff on Sunday), merely for exercising free speech that some find offensive. That’s not acceptable in any way, shape or form, and we shouldn’t knuckle under on our principles just to keep butthurt Muslims pacified. Not that we should intentionally provoke them through events like Sunday’s, but that we should defend those jerks’ right to free speech, no matter how abhorrent we find the message. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/27 "2015-05-05T14:05:54Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > me. > > Its a significant percentage of worldwise Muslims that believe that crap. . No. although from the following comments it is interesting to see genocide justified. always there are reasons to kill… but your reasons the right ones, the other guys, the wrong ones… ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/28 "2015-05-05T14:06:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > While he’s greatly overestimating the number of [jihadis](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/26/opinion/bergen-schneider-how-many-jihadists/), you are greatly underestimating the number of [Muslims](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world) in the world. you do not get takfiri people from ‘hudnreds of millions’ the only thing that justifies ‘hudnred of millions’ is the logic of the genocidaires. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/29 "2015-05-05T14:32:28Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Yes I uttered “this is a hate group I can get behind.” because most hate groups I just can’t support, they hold disgusting views. > > But if this group is really basically “anti-religious murdering nut” or just likes defending the first amendment by riling up violent nuts then it is the RARE hate group I’m cool with. Get it. This same group put ads on San Francisco buses saying the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was a “war between the civilized man and the savage”, and lead the fight against the so-called “ground zero mosque”. From the [http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-shooting-20150503-story.html#page=1](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-shooting-20150503-story.html#page=1) we find out that this little “art show” wasn’t just about artistic freedom: > [@LA Times](#): > > The keynote speaker was Geert Wilders, a right-wing member of the Dutch parliament. After seeking to ban the Koran, comparing the text to “Mein Kampf,” and calling Islam a totalitarian ideology, the controversial lawmaker faced charges of inciting hatred in the Netherlands, but he was acquitted in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/30 "2015-05-05T14:36:56Z")
Well, if he was acquitted for hate speech in the Netherlands he must be pretty hate free by legal standards. That’s like the inverse of being found racist in the south. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/31 "2015-05-05T14:50:45Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Well, if he was acquitted for hate speech in the Netherlands he must be pretty hate free by legal standards. That’s like the inverse of being found racist in the south. Not exactly. [Trial of Geert Wilders:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Geert_Wilders) 1. It turned out that, under Article 71 of the Dutch Constitution, he had immunity with regard to anything he said in or wrote to parliament while he was in office. 2. > [@](#): > > On 23 June 2011, Wilders was acquitted of all charges, with Judge Marcel van Oosten noting that his statements, although “gross and denigrating,” had not given rise to hatred against Muslims, and as such were "acceptable within the context of public debate."Van Oosten also said, however, that Wilders’s statements were on the edge of legal acceptability. Apparently, you have to be successful at it to be convicted of it. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/32 "2015-05-05T14:57:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Apparently, you have to be successful at it to be convicted of it. So at best he was guilty of attempted hatery? Liberals are slacking these days. I remember the glory days when the ACLU would defend to the death the right for the KKK to lead a march. Now, liberals get butthurt if somebodyso much as casts a stinkeye towards people that would like to fucking KILL you because you don’t agree with their imaginary god. Because diversity and shit. Unless of course the target is Christians. Then they better put Adam and Steve on the wedding cake and smile while doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/33 "2015-05-05T15:01:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The vast majority of Muslims do say that. Why should these terrorists get to control what we do? The terrorists need to be ridiculed and their beliefs ridiculed and their bogus justifications and threats spat at and derided. If they say "don’t draw Mohammed " then they need to be shown that their threats carry no weight. If that causes anxiety and distress to peaceful muslims that is to be regretted but I hope they see the bigger issue as being the threat to free speech from the extremists. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/34 "2015-05-05T15:01:56Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So at best he was guilty of attempted hatery? > > Liberals are slacking these days. I remember the glory days when the ACLU would defend to the death the right for the KKK to lead a march. > > Now, liberals get butthurt if somebodyso much as casts a stinkeye towards people that would like to fucking KILL you because you don’t agree with their imaginary god. Because diversity and shit. > > Unless of course the target is Christians. Then they better put Adam and Steve on the wedding cake and smile while doing it. Yeah, Why didn’t the _A_CLU jump in to defend him in the _Dutch_ courts? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/35 "2015-05-05T15:12:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah, Why didn’t the _A_CLU jump in to defend him in the _Dutch_ courts? :rolleyes: Your the one who brought up the pansy assed Dutch as proof of something something sorta sorta maybe. And to defend the dead “victims” I am sure some Muslim authority (probably a bunch of them) have declared these victims to be righteous and legal an shit. So friggin what? Maybe the ACLU still has a pair and will weigh in pro cartoon wise. I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/36 "2015-05-05T15:25:48Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Your the one who brought up the pansy assed Dutch as proof of something something sorta sorta maybe. Not really, but thanks for playing. Next time try reading a link or two instead of just spouting off, sorta sorta maybe? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/37 "2015-05-05T15:46:52Z")
I think the issue here is that the larger Muslim world is being forced to make a choice between embracing free speech and thereby condoning the images of Mohammed, or to remain true to their religion, and be seen as condoning violent terrorism. And in the eyes of most of the West, staying silent is a tacit rejection of free speech. It’s sort of a “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t” type of situation, in that there doesn’t seem to be a happy middle ground according to more conservative strains of Islam. That’s why, I suspect, we don’t see the various Islamic authorities coming out to denounce this; they have that same dilemma- look like a hypocrite, or look like a terrorist sympathizer. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/38 "2015-05-05T15:57:05Z")
A good guy with a gun stopped two bad guys with guns. The LSM began reporting that the bad guys had AK47s, and that their firearms were “automatic” assault rifles. The Daily Mail, a British media outlet, managed to publish an actual crime scene photo of what appears to be a semi-automatic (auto-loading) Kel-Tec 2000. [![](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/04/20/284F139500000578-3067689-image-m-30_1430768089004.jpg) ](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/04/20/284F139500000578-3067689-image-m-30_1430768089004.jpg) Compare - > **[SUB2000 Carbine Rifle | Powerful, Reliable & Accurate | Specs | KelTec](https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearm/rifles/sub2000/)** > > The SUB2000 is semi-auto carbine, with tons of pistol mag options. It folds for easy storage but deploys quickly. Offered in 9mm or .40 cal. Apparently the LSM still thinks every firearm is an AK47 or AR-15 because they are too lazy, or too stupid, to do their homework. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/39 "2015-05-05T15:59:36Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think the issue here is that the larger Muslim world is being forced to make a choice between embracing free speech and thereby condoning the images of Mohammed, or to remain true to their religion, and be seen as condoning violent terrorism. And in the eyes of most of the West, staying silent is a tacit rejection of free speech. > > It’s sort of a “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t” type of situation, in that there doesn’t seem to be a happy middle ground according to more conservative strains of Islam. > > That’s why, I suspect, we don’t see the various Islamic authorities coming out to denounce this; they have that same dilemma- look like a hypocrite, or look like a terrorist sympathizer. Well that just make me tear up. Good observation though. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224/40 "2015-05-05T16:40:47Z")
They should just evolve their religion and start saying that its ok to do some things even if its prohibited [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-this-is-different-garland-shooting-2-killed-after-they-open-fire-at-mohammed-cartoon-event/719224.md?page=3)