# Well, well ... has Tony Blair become a delusional Islamophobe bigot like me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595 "2011-01-22T20:12:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/21 "2011-01-22T21:29:27Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > As has already been pointed out, it’s utterly absurd for you to claim that Tony Blair adopted his hatred of Muslims from you. Tony Blair had already killed vast numbers of innocent Muslims before you started posting your anti-Muslim rants here. If there’s any relationship between your bigotry and his, it must have spread from him to you, not the other way around. > > The difference between the two of you is that Tony Blair was Prime Minister of Britain, and thus was able to order his country into a war on false premises. You, on the other hand, can do nothing more with you false premises than post them on them on the internet. Sorry, I can’t find the exact quote, ITR, but you remind me of the gravedigger in \*Hamlet \*who drove the poor Prince nuts by taking every comment of his literally. I did not mean that my opinion literally “spread” from my postings on SD to Tony Blair. I realize Blair probably does not spend a lot of time on this site, if any, and that he does not know me from Adam’s off ox. I was using “spread” as a figure of speech. And before you say it, no, I am not comparing myself to a Prince of Denmark either. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/22 "2011-01-22T21:35:33Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > -No strife in Mexico? [Mexican drug war - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War) > > -Congolese pacifism ? [Sexual violence in the Democratic Republic of the Congo - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_in_the_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo) > > -India peaceful co-existence of religions? [Religious violence in India - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India#More_recent_anti-Hindu_violence) I did not say there was no strife if those countries. An earlier posting had said that the conflict of Islam with the west arises from the fact that Islam is Third World, not from an Islamic ideology of world domination and hostility to the infidel West. My point is: If the real conflict is Third World versus the West, why are other Third World countries not attacking the west as Muslims are doing? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/23 "2011-01-22T22:19:56Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > I did not say there was no strife if those countries. An earlier posting had said that the conflict of Islam with the west arises from the fact that Islam is Third World, not from an Islamic ideology of world domination and hostility to the infidel West. > > My point is: If the real conflict is Third World versus the West, why are other Third World countries not attacking the west as Muslims are doing? Because they are not Muslim. Before that, back in Marxist times, an internationalist ideology could reach over purely ethnic or religious divides. Islam cannot do that as, by its nature it is contained to “its people”. But it does pretty much all that Marxism and nationalism used to do. Thinking this is Armaggedon is misguided. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/24 "2011-01-22T22:26:08Z")
Oh, its people! Would that be the Indonesians, the Chinese, or the Arabs? The Sunni, or the Shia. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/25 "2011-01-22T22:35:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, its people! Would that be the Indonesians, the Chinese, or the Arabs? The Sunni, or the Shia. All of them can be. Though, like with any intra-religious divides Islam’s different factions can hate each other. If there’s some form of recognition in a common ideology, as Islam is turning out to be, there can be some “Muslim alliances”. Usually they tend to fall short, as local issues tend to overcome what remains a largely fictitious link. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/26 "2011-01-22T22:36:43Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > …, the no-go areas in British cities where infidels dare not set foot… Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/27 "2011-01-22T23:04:41Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Cite? Since I do not live in Britain, I would refer you to various groups like the English Defence League. I have most commonly heard complaints regarding Luton, Manchester and parts of London. In France, Muslims have taken to showing their Muscle by taking over whole streets for Friday prayer. See [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNIKz9b8FAA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNIKz9b8FAA) As you will see from this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbEJom2HJEg&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbEJom2HJEg&feature=related) French non-Muslims and businesses who happen to live on these streets are out of luck if they want to get into or out of their own property during Friday prayers. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/28 "2011-01-22T23:08:13Z")
Who gives a shit about France? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/29 "2011-01-22T23:22:05Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Since I do not live in Britain, I would refer you to various groups like the English Defence League. I have most commonly heard complaints regarding Luton, Manchester and parts of London. Why not refer people to the BNP too? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/30 "2011-01-22T23:22:15Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Since I do not live in Britain, I would refer you to various groups like the English Defence League. I have most commonly heard complaints regarding Luton, Manchester and parts of London. > > In France, Muslims have taken to showing their Muscle by taking over whole streets for Friday prayer. See [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNIKz9b8FAA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNIKz9b8FAA) > > As you will see from this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbEJom2HJEg&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbEJom2HJEg&feature=related) French non-Muslims and businesses who happen to live on these streets are out of luck if they want to get into or out of their own property during Friday prayers. Way to flush your credibility down the toilet. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/31 "2011-01-22T23:29:54Z")
Considering your record here it would take some time for Blair argue his way into being as much a delusional bigotted Islamophobe at yourself. He has to start somewhere I guess. Not like anyone’s really rushing to defend Blair against your charges either, their is plenty of room in that club. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/32 "2011-01-22T23:34:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Who gives a shit about France? Will you give a shit when it happens on your own street? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/33 "2011-01-22T23:38:39Z")
I’m sorry but arguing that the English Defence League(the UK’s answer to the KKK) is a reliable source is utterly asinine. Also, believing that outside of Uganda that there are no Christain countries with harsh penalties for being gays shows gross ignorance regarding the world. Also, anyone who thinks radical Islam is a threat to the West is utterly paranoid. Radical Muslims can’t hurt the West. What they actually are threats to are fellow Muslims and the GWOT actually strengthens their cause. Inshallah, one day we’ll figure out that invading countries and engaging in perpetual occupation does far more to help radical Islsm than it does to hurt it. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/34 "2011-01-22T23:40:39Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Just for the sake of argument (what else would it be for on Great Debates?) I just came across Youtube of the British former Prime Minister Tony Blair making these comments [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Thm6pLmhM&feature=player\_embedded](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Thm6pLmhM&feature=player_embedded) Ok, watched it, and I think Blair may be very right in what he said. > [@](#): > > Blair is warning that the West that it must abandon its “wretched posture of apology” towards Islamic extremism. And he’s certainly right there. > [@](#): > > The problem is that these moderate Muslims do not control Islam or the well-financed, extremist, world-wide ideology that is intent on destroying our way of life and replacing it with submission to Allah. Nobody controls Islam, but it’s true that there is a strain of extremism and violent anti-western/modernism that is well financed. > [@](#): > > Blair is more of less admitting that contempt for the West and its values is intrinsic to Islam, and that Islam is basically an ideology (he uses the word several times) that is waging a world-wide jihad against the west. He’s not. Blair is choosing his words far more carefully than you are. > [@](#): > > When I mentioned “world-wide jihad” I was of course called delusional and bigoted. I’m not going to look up all your previous posts. > [@](#): > > Note also that among the comments following the video is one by a certain ALLAHU AKBAR AlLHAMDULILAH who, far from denying that this is what Islam wants for the west, openly tells us: " Islam will never stop growing \*\*now face it \*\*its the fastest growing religion :)". SCARY CAPITALS! Oooh… I have noticed that some of the most delusional anti-evolutionist arguments on youtube come from black Americans. My conclusion from that is that it’s stupid to take youtube comments seriously. Also: > [@Valteron](#): > > The increasing demands for Sharia law in Britain, the no-go areas in British cities where infidels dare not set foot, home-grown terrorists like the shoe bomber, the growing resistance movements like the English Defence League and its counterparts in Europe, are all the result of politically correct potliticians in the past 20 years who insisted that anyone who dared to say that Islam was not just a religion like the others were ignorant bigots. Is all bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/35 "2011-01-22T23:51:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m sorry but arguing that the English Defence League(the UK’s answer to the KKK) is a reliable source is utterly asinine. Perhaps you should do a little research on the EDL before you slander them by comparing them to the KKK. You may not be aware that the EDL includes a Gay, Lebian and Bisexual section, a Jewish Section, and that it has blacks and other non-whites in its membership. One of its mains spokespersons is a Sikh. Does that sound KKK to you? Do you see gay rainbow flags and Israeli flags at KKK meetings? Why do gay people support the EDL? For starters, maybe because we are scared shitless of Islam. Maybe because 72% of British Muslims believe gays should be executed or imprisoned. Maybe because gangs of Muslim thugs in places like London, Amsterdam and Paris go gay-bashing on a regular basis. Yes, the EDL are working-class and proud of it, but that is because the expansion of Islam is happening first in the working-class areas. They are the ones who are feeling it more. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/36 "2011-01-23T00:04:25Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Since I do not live in Britain, I would refer you to various groups like the English Defence League. I have most commonly heard complaints regarding Luton, Manchester and parts of London. Do you have a cite or not? If in fact there are parts of British cities that are no-go zones for non-Muslims, it should be trivially easy for you to find hundreds of links, not just some vague “Hey, ask the English Defence League.” I went to their website and couldn’t find anything about your claim. The fact that you CAN’T find any real cites is very damning of your claim. Perhaps you’d like to reconsider it… or provide some cites. Perhaps not ones from the EDL or “Christian World News.” ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/37 "2011-01-23T00:12:18Z")
Your argument that the EDL can’t be compared to the KKK because it contains a “gay division” and a “Jewish division” shows little understanding of history. Based on that logic, it would be ridiculous to compare the Nazis to the KKK, because the KKK of that era hated Catholics and Muslims whereas much of the Nazi leadership was Catholic and the SS had a Muslim division. If you’re going to claim to be the big defender of the West, you should learn more about Western history. For myself, I’m happy to compare any group that would beat me up for walking while Brown to the KKK. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/38 "2011-01-23T00:18:44Z")
You do not believe there are areas of Britain where non-Muslims can’t go? Here is a report in BBC Today [BBC - Radio4 - Today/Oldham Vigilantes](http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/archive/politics/oldham1.shtml) (the author, you will note, is named Barnie Choudry and is obviously of Asian origin). As the article says: \ ***Asian Vigilantes** by Barnie Choudhury An investigation for Today has found disturbing evidence that Asian youths in parts of Oldham are trying to create no go areas for white people. Last year the police investigated record levels of racist attacks in Oldham.Of the 572 cases, 60% turned out to be white victims. Pakistanis make up the majority on the Glodwick estate just west of the town centre. Some youths speak the language of racial hatred. It’s not clear whether this is bravado but their message is blunt… white people keep out. \* Other areas that are frequently reported as no-go for non-Muslims are in Birmingham and North London. But it is difficult to give media reports because the media are scared of touching the issue for fear of being labelled Islamophobic. They use “Asian” as a cover-all, but everyone knows it is not gangs of young Koreans or Sri Lankans that are involved. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/39 "2011-01-23T00:22:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > For myself, I’m happy to compare any group that would beat me up for walking while Brown to the KKK. And I am happy to compare a religion that wants me killed, flogged or imprisoned for being gay, as the MAJORITY of Muslim countries do, to the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595/40 "2011-01-23T00:27:23Z")
So if “60% of all victims of racist attacks are white” doesn’t that seem to suggest that 40% are Asian? Apparently there are quite a few Asians getting beaten up by whites. Moreover, since white crime victims in the UK ate more likely to report crimes than Asians, the real numbers might be even higher. Thank you for undermining your own argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/well-well-has-tony-blair-become-a-delusional-islamophobe-bigot-like-me/568595.md?page=3)