# Welll Looky here. Ex-Fox News host Gretchen Carlson sues network head Roger Ailes for sexual... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welll-looky-here-ex-fox-news-host-gretchen-carlson-sues-network-head-roger-ailes-for-sexual/759253 "2016-07-06T19:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![loshan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce73a5/32.png) [@loshan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loshan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welll-looky-here-ex-fox-news-host-gretchen-carlson-sues-network-head-roger-ailes-for-sexual/759253/321 "2016-09-15T05:14:35Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Fox and Friends had been hosted with the same formula before she arrived at the network. [E.D. Hill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_%26_Friends) played her role from 1998-2006. Carlson had even guest hosted the show during the weekends, before she joined in 2006. The jovial sexism was on display during the entire time. After Carlson left in 2013, rating apparently shot up when Elisabeth Hasselbeck arrived, who was 11 years younger. > > Carlson knew what she was doing. To suggest otherwise denies her agency IMHO, which is much less than she deserves. Absent such evidence, I don’t draw conclusions. Show me the evidence, and I’ll give you concern. Also, there wasn’t a word limit on her document. Straight Dope legal Eagles can correct me if I’m wrong, but typically you don’t hold back evidence in these sorts of documents. (Right? Or wrong?) > > Again though, what happened with Doocy was highly significant, because it set up a solid case for a retaliation suit, something which is far more likely to succeed in court than a sexual harassment suit. Sure, there were real workplace issues dating from ~2007. But the alleged retaliation started in 2013. And in 2014, Carlson wisely started to wear a metaphorical wire when she met privately with Ailes. Probably not legally. I find this view unnecessarily condescending towards Carlson. I think she took a difficult situation and resolved it successfully. But I also think she had a longstanding habit of enabling sexism on the show. I simply won’t ignore that. No, not exactly a non-issue: I’ve encouraged discussion. But I’m making a moral claim. Carlson has done real damage to the cause of human dignity. She doesn’t deserve assault, she doesn’t deserve sexual predation and she doesn’t even deserve illegal sexual harassment. But annoyance? While holding down a $1.5 million per year job? Cry me a river. Her co-workers -many paid far less than she was- said they rolled their eyes at Doocy’s crap and I’m guessing Carlson did too. You’re a man. Excellent guesswork on my part. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welll-looky-here-ex-fox-news-host-gretchen-carlson-sues-network-head-roger-ailes-for-sexual/759253/322 "2016-09-15T05:41:19Z")
> [@loshan](#): > > You’re a man. > > Excellent guesswork on my part. Outstanding guesswork: I’m a straight white male. I see from your posting history that you are female. Did you see Gretchen Carlson during her Fox and Friends days? Did you ever object to her treatment by Doocy et al? Because some of her complaints alluded to on screen behavior. Did you ever have issues with her support for racial profiling of Muslims, skepticism about Ahmed the kid who brought a clock project to school, promoting story lines about epidemics of false accusations of rape, etc? She trafficked in some pretty toxic stuff. Do you have a problem with that? I think she deserved her $20 million. But I hold her accountable for her behavior. Likewise for Doocy. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welll-looky-here-ex-fox-news-host-gretchen-carlson-sues-network-head-roger-ailes-for-sexual/759253/323 "2016-09-15T14:29:18Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Fox and Friends had been hosted with the same formula before she arrived at the network. [E.D. Hill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_%26_Friends) played her role from 1998-2006. Carlson had even guest hosted the show during the weekends, before she joined in 2006. The jovial sexism was on display during the entire time. After Carlson left in 2013, rating apparently shot up when Elisabeth Hasselbeck arrived, who was 11 years younger. Repeating the same thing over and over again won’t loose you the label of sexual harassment apologist and victim blamer. And for someone who told me to “put up or shut up” its remarkable how you keep not providing any evidence for your claim. For example you’ve just cited wikipedia. You claim the “jovial sexism” was on display the entire time. Almost as if it was a characteristic of the show. Yet the wikipedia article makes no mention of it. I’ve just googled “Jovial sexism Fox and Friends” and only this thread has popped up. I googled sexism and Fox and Friends and I’ve searched for sexism and ED Hill and I’ve used date ranges back to when she was on the show and I’m showing nothing. So its over to you. Put up or shut up. Prove she “knew what she was getting into.” Prove that she was paid to be sexually harassed both on screen and off. > [@](#): > > Carlson knew what she was doing. And that girl got raped because she was wearing a short skirt. And it wasn’t really rape was it? He didn’t use his penis. I hope some day in the next few years you will read what you wrote here and be bitterly ashamed. The arguments that you are using are the same that allow rape culture to proliferate. > [@](#): > > To suggest otherwise denies her agency IMHO, which is much less than she deserves. Can you get more condescending? > [@](#): > > Absent such evidence, I don’t draw conclusions. Bullshit. You’ve reached plenty of conclusions. You have concluded Carlson got paid more than Doocy. You have concluded that she knew what she was getting into when she took the job. You have concluded that she deserved to get sexually harassed. You have concluded that what Doocy did was not sexual harassment, but simple “annoyance.” You are lying. > [@](#): > > Show me the evidence, and I’ll give you concern. Also, there wasn’t a word limit on her document. Straight Dope legal Eagles can correct me if I’m wrong, but typically you don’t hold back evidence in these sorts of documents. (Right? Or wrong?) The document wasn’t about Doocy. It wasn’t a complaint about Doocy. It was the complaint about Aisles. Why are you expecting a complaint about Aisles to contain lots of evidence of a case against Doocy? > [@](#): > > Again though, what happened with Doocy was highly significant, because it set up a solid case for a retaliation suit, something which is far more likely to succeed in court than a sexual harassment suit. It was significant because Carlson thought she was being harassed, and she complained about being harassed. She did everything that we ask sexual harassment victims to do. Do you think she was wrong to complain about Doocy? Its because of people like you that victims don’t come forward. > [@](#): > > Sure, there were real workplace issues dating from ~2007. But the alleged retaliation started in 2013. And in 2014, Carlson wisely started to wear a metaphorical wire when she met privately with Ailes. Probably not legally. And if it weren’t for the wire I doubt you would be believing her. So legal or not: it was the only way to get things done. > [@](#): > > I find this view unnecessarily condescending towards Carlson. I think she took a difficult situation and resolved it successfully. The resolution was that she was told she was a “man hater” and that she had to "learn to ‘get along with the boys’. What the fuck drugs are you on man? You think that is resolving things successfully? > [@](#): > > But I also think she had a longstanding habit of enabling sexism on the show. I simply won’t ignore that. No, not exactly a non-issue: I’ve encouraged discussion. But I’m making a moral claim. Carlson has done real damage to the cause of human dignity. She doesn’t deserve assault, she doesn’t deserve sexual predation and she doesn’t even deserve illegal sexual harassment. But annoyance? While holding down a $1.5 million per year job? Cry me a river. Her co-workers -many paid far less than she was- said they rolled their eyes at Doocy’s crap and I’m guessing Carlson did too. Carlson didn’t roll her her eyes at Doocy’s crap. She made a stand. The stand didn’t get very far because unfortunately there are a lot of people like you in the world. So she made another stand. And this time she gathered enough evidence that even plonkers like you would have to believe her. And because she made her stand Aisles is gone, and 20 other woman have been brave enough to come forward. And maybe if her stand had been successful earlier, then maybe some of those people who “rolled their eyes” at Doocy would have been coming out to complain about him. You think she doesn’t deserve “illegal” sexual harassment: but legal sexual harassment is all right with you. Once again all you’ve done is confirm you are a sexual harassment apologist and a victim blamer. And a sexual harassment enabler. And a liar. > [@](#): > > Outstanding guesswork: I’m a straight white male. I see from your posting history that you are female. Did you see Gretchen Carlson during her Fox and Friends days? Did you ever object to her treatment by Doocy et al? Because some of her complaints alluded to on screen behavior. Did you ever have issues with her support for racial profiling of Muslims, skepticism about Ahmed the kid who brought a clock project to school, promoting story lines about epidemics of false accusations of rape, etc? She trafficked in some pretty toxic stuff. Do you have a problem with that? Now you are “mansplaining”, victim blaming, and being a condescending prick. And I thought you used to be one of the sensible ones around here. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welll-looky-here-ex-fox-news-host-gretchen-carlson-sues-network-head-roger-ailes-for-sexual/759253/324 "2016-09-15T15:00:53Z")
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