# Wellstone Family to Cheney: Get Bent, Dick! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 31, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714 "2002-10-31T15:25:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/21 "2002-10-31T20:28:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*The white Hiouse had no business interfering in a state primary process PERIOD. Pawlenty “agreed” because he had no choice. It was not a “request” it was an ORDER and he knew it. \*\* Again I have to ask: how? Pawlenty could have continued to run for the nomination without White House and RNC support. It’s not like Cheney could unilaterally decide to keep him off the ballot or anything. All he could do was tell Pawlenty that Bush would not campaign for him and that the RNC wouldn’t fully support his candidacy. And why shouldn’t the Republican-held White House take an interest in who the Republican candidate is for Senate in tight races? Obviously, the Bush administration would prefer to work with a Republican-held Senate than one controlled by the Democrats. Obviously, a bruising primary campaign could weaken the eventual Republican challenger against Wellstone. Why shouldn’t Bush try to maximize the chances of Republican success nationwide? This is just ordinary politics at work. There’s nothing wrong with it. Consider [Mike Honda](http://www.house.gov/honda/). Honda was talked into running for California’s 15th Congressional District seat [by Bill Clinton](http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cruz/02.23.00/election3-0008.html). I’m sure other Democrats interested in the seat were none to pleased with that use of Clinton’s influence. But so what? Clinton’s use of his influence over a California primary for a House seat was perfectly above board, as is Cheney’s use of his influence in the Minnesota primary. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/22 "2002-10-31T20:35:57Z")
**Snicks** : 1. Perhaps it was a political miscalculation to favor Coleman over Pawlenty. That doesn’t make Cheney’s call to Pawlenty inappropriate. 2. VP Cheney threw out the opening pitch at the Rangers opener this year. Attendance was [49,617](http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/recap/0,2405,MLB_20020405_ANA@TEX,00.htm). Somehow, all the fans got in to see the game on time. ---
**Author:** ![Toaster52](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/50afbb/32.png) [@Toaster52](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toaster52)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/23 "2002-10-31T20:46:29Z")
from **Diogenes** _“Somehow I don’t think we would have heard much outrage from conservatives if Al Gore had been snubbed under similar circumstances.”_ This is just crap. You make a hypothetical situation, then tell us you’re omnicient and know how the Republicans would act in said hypothetical situation, and then castigate them for acting that way. What a bunch of baloney. Ummm…somehow I don’t think we would have heard much outrage from liberals if Enron’s CEO was Clinton’s brother. See how easy it is to imply motives that don’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/24 "2002-10-31T21:24:30Z")
What happened to the right of a state to choose its own nominations? Threatening to withdraw all White House and national party support for a duely nominated candidate is heavy-handed, interfering, and anti-democratic. It was a slap in the face to GOP voters in Minnesota who had a basic right stolen from them by an autocratic White House. This was not GEORGE BUSH’S senate race it was MINNESOTA’S senate race. It is none of the administrations business who the state wants to elect. The electorate of Minnesota does not exist to serve the whims of King George II. There is a difference between talking somebody INTO a race and ordering somebody OUT of a race. I will withdraw the hypothetical Al Gore remark. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/25 "2002-10-31T21:33:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*There is a difference between talking somebody INTO a race and ordering somebody OUT of a race. \*\* Nevertheless, it’s not uncommon. A Democratic friend of mine was quite upset when Nita Lowey was pushed out of a Senate run that my friend felt she had earned, in order to make way for Hillary Clinton. E.g., see [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/keyraces2000/stories/lowey030299.htm](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/keyraces2000/stories/lowey030299.htm) ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/26 "2002-10-31T22:00:00Z")
**Scylla** got it right. (oh great, **now** he’ll use that as his sig or something) ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/27 "2002-10-31T22:06:00Z")
—Asking Cheney not to attend was low-class.— No, making it into a public issue, instead of just respecting the families wishes quietly, was low-class. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/28 "2002-10-31T22:10:11Z")
I read your link, December, but I don’t see an analogy here. Nobody called Ms. Lowey from the White House, or anywhere else for that matter, and ordered her out of the race. Her own state party was simply waiting for a potentially more popular candidate. There was no attempt for a POTUS (or VPOTUS) to impose his will on a state primary, as there was vis a vis Cheney/ Pawlenty. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/29 "2002-10-31T22:10:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*What happened to the right of a state to choose its own nominations? \*\* Nothing at all. Minnesota still held its primary. Pawlenty could have still participated had he so chosen.\*\* > [@](#): > > Threatening to withdraw all White House and national party support for a duely nominated candidate is heavy-handed, interfering, and anti-democratic. It was a slap in the face to GOP voters in Minnesota who had a basic right stolen from them by an autocratic White House. \*\* Really? So, basically, the White House and RNC have to give equal support to every candidate who seeks the Republican nomination? Even the wingnuts? Why shouldn’t the White House offer its support to those candidates who look favorably on administration policies?\*\* > [@](#): > > This was not GEORGE BUSH’S senate race it was MINNESOTA’S senate race. It is none of the administrations business who the state wants to elect. The electorate of Minnesota does not exist to serve the whims of King George II.\*\* No, and Bush/Cheney weren’t declaring Minnesota’s candidate by fiat, either. They were exerting influence. There is nothing wrong with that.\*\* > [@](#): > > There is a difference between talking somebody INTO a race and ordering somebody OUT of a race. \*\* Not much. Assuring a candidate that he has your full support pretty much by definition means you are withdrawing support from competing candidates. Would there be any difference to you if Cheney had instead told Coleman that the White House and RNC were supporting him 100% over Pawlenty? Pawlenty’s team would surely find out about that, and they would surely reach the same conclusion that they have in the instant case. (Indeed, this method would be impolite to Pawlenty – it’s much better to be direct about these things). And **December** brings up another good example. Nita Lowey had paid her dues in New York for years (much to my chagrin, she’s my rep). The DNC talked her out of running so Hillary woudn’t have to deal with a contested primary. Was the DNC acting in a “heavy-handed, interfering, and anti-democratic” manner? Was the DNC’s move a “slap in the face to Democratic voters in New York who had a basic right stolen from them”? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/30 "2002-10-31T22:22:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I read your link, December, but I don’t see an analogy here. Nobody called Ms. Lowey from the White House, or anywhere else for that matter, and ordered her out of the race. Her own state party was simply waiting for a potentially more popular candidate. There was no attempt for a POTUS (or VPOTUS) to impose his will on a state primary, as there was vis a vis Cheney/ Pawlenty. \*\* Oh please. Lowey was all but the declared nominee before Hillary decided to run. She was strongly encouraged to step aside because it was thought that Hillary would be the stronger candidate and that a tough primary fight would weaken her in the general election. Similarly, Pawlenty was asked to step aside because Coleman was thought to the the better candidate and a tough primary fight would weaken him in the general election. The same threats would have been made, or implicitly understood, in both cases: if you run, the White House will not support you and you will not enjoy the full backing of the national party. I mean, really, do you honestly think that then-President Clinton was neutral on the question of who got the New York Democratic nomination for the Senate race in 2000? Do you honestly believe his political team didn’t work to get Lowey to step aside? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DRomm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DRomm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRomm)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/31 "2002-10-31T22:25:04Z")
The memorial service was heartfelt and moving. Don’t buy into the GOP spin of anything else. Heck, don’t buy into the AJS spin on it… the dubious Americans for Job Security had been targeting Wellstone, putting a million dollars, illegally, into the Coleman campaign at the last moment. The whining about the memorial sounds like more dirty tricks. How do Republicans sleep at night? [http://www.salon.com/politics/conason/2002/10/24/bush/](http://www.salon.com/politics/conason/2002/10/24/bush/) for Joe Conason’s take, before the tragedy. Here in Minnesota, we used to have Republicans worth supporting. Arne Carlson, Dave Durenburger. Now, we’re stuck with Norm Coleman and we have Dick Cheney to thank for that. His presence at the memorial would have shamed the event. Remember Paul Wellstone’s legacy of passion and commitment. Vote. Zero tolerance for Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/32 "2002-10-31T23:07:09Z")
I am usually inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. I think it was appropriate and gracious for the Vice President to offer to come to the service and it was appropriate and gracious of the family to respectfully decline his offer. After seeing parts of the memorial service, I came away with three thoughts: 1. Wellstone’s sons were both well-spoken, articulate and charismatic speakers. And I’m a Republican. I thought their father and mother would have been very proud of their sons. 2. Forget Mondale. Let the oldest son run in Wellstone’s place. He’s good looking to boot, which isn’t completely irrelevant in politics today. 3. Perhaps the Wellstones, anticipating the high-spirited and not altogether non-political service, refused Cheney’s offer in part to spare him the embarrassment of being there. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/33 "2002-10-31T23:18:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > \*\*3) Perhaps the Wellstones, anticipating the high-spirited and not altogether non-political service, refused Cheney’s offer in part to spare him the embarrassment of being there. \*\* According to [this source](http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_920.shtml), the Wellstones did indeed anticipate a “not altogether non-political service.” It says that the use of the service as a political rally was planned and engineered by operatives at the Democratic National Committee. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/34 "2002-10-31T23:21:38Z")
Curious about Lowey, then. I left a New York State job in which we (for agency survival) were forced to monitor state politics quite thoroughly in the spring of 1998. I never heard of this woman prior to this thread. Yet she was “all but the designated nominee” of the Democratic Party for U.S. Senator from New York in (I presume early) 2000? I know downstate politics can churn up someone from obscurity (from an upstate point of view) relatively fast, but this is ridiculous – from not even mentioned in _Empire State Review_ in the eight years before I left, to the consensus choice for U.S. Senate candidate, in about two years? ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/35 "2002-11-01T00:09:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*According to [this source](http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_920.shtml), the Wellstones did indeed anticipate a “not altogether non-political service.” It says that the use of the service as a political rally was planned and engineered by operatives at the Democratic National Committee. \*\* This from a page whose header is “Because nobody’s life, liberty or property is safe when congress is in session.” If they’d named one single, _one_ source, I might give them a smidgen of credibility. Anyone besides **december** wonder why the DNC and the DSCC didn’t call back? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/36 "2002-11-01T00:13:57Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by stofsky_ > \*\* This from a page whose header is “Because nobody’s life, liberty or property is safe when congress is in session.” \*\* Damn, stofsky I was going to say exactly the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/37 "2002-11-01T00:55:16Z")
> [@](#): > > This from a page whose header is “Because nobody’s life, liberty or property is safe when congress is in session.” Okay, property, arguably. Taxes and what have you. Liberty, doubtful, although I sometimes have my doubts about the current administration. But life? I’m pretty sure that, as much as I dislike politicians, none of them are actually trying to _kill_ me. Paranoid delusions are fun as a hobby, but they’re really not a smart lifestyle choice. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/38 "2002-11-01T01:57:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Asking Cheney not to attend was low-class. The Vice President is the presiding officer of the US Senate, so, Cheney and Wellstone were colleagues, in a way. So, **december** , are you suggesting that you and **elucidator** and **minty** are _colleagues_? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/39 "2002-11-01T02:06:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\* So, **december** , are you suggesting that you and **elucidator** and **minty** are _colleagues_? 😃 \*\* Precisely. If I knew either of their actual identities, I might well attend his memorial service, were I nearby. I certainly wouldn’t expect to be excluded or jeered at because we have different political beliefs. And, I assume, vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714/40 "2002-11-01T02:12:05Z")
Spooky coincidence. Just about to point out that the quote about liberty being in danger when the legislature, etc. is from my own number one hero, Mark Twain, who is, of course, Sam Clemens OOOOOOeeeeeewooooooo? Spppoooooooky! Well, ok, maybe not. And as to that utterly uncalled for remark, **Sam** , **Minty** is a _lawyer_. Sure, I’m a necromancer, dope fiend and pervert. But not a lawyer! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-family-to-cheney-get-bent-dick/134714.md?page=3)