# Wellstone Farewell Becomes Political -- Will it backfire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2002, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526 "2002-10-30T12:31:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/41 "2002-10-31T01:32:32Z")
> [@](#): > > To repeat–what, there’s some kind of law that prohibits laughing at funerals? – DDG There is no controlling legal authority. I’ve been to about a dozen funerals / “memorial services,” and I haven’t heard any laughter at one yet. Clinton, what a classy guy. > [@](#): > > …cheered every time the monitors showed former President Bill Clinton and his wife… --DDG It is not surprising that partisan Ds would applaud Clinton. I wonder when they will figure out that he is a populist with no core beliefs. Nobody smart hates him because he was a liberal President, which he wasn’t. “You can fool some of the people all of the time…” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/42 "2002-10-31T01:46:02Z")
December: expecting class from a Democrat is like expecting honesty from a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![barton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@barton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/43 "2002-10-31T02:41:37Z")
I didn’t watch it, so I’ll pass on details. However, I’ll wager Wellstone’s sons knew better than Ventura, the GOP, and assorted naysayers what their father would have wanted. And I also think that it’s none of our damn business how they chose to run things. If they’d made into a 'Nawlins-style festival roaming through the streets with Clinton playing sax, well, good for them. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/44 "2002-10-31T03:29:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\* I’ve been to about a dozen funerals / “memorial services,” and I haven’t heard any laughter at one yet._\* That’s what you get for going to Republican funerals. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/45 "2002-10-31T05:46:01Z")
It was a _five hour_ event, and someone laughed? At something, we’re not sure what? Whoa, what a scandal. This obviously wasn’t a funeral service, it was a reception. Any idiot who’s attended any generic funeral would know this. A funeral **service** is solumn, usually religious. Often a limited number of people are invited. A funeral **reception** is for socializing, and to invite folk who may not have been invited to a more intimate/religious service. The allegedly offensive rally was a **reception** , not a service. Laughing at a funeral service is despicable. Laughing during the reception is expected, you’re with friends and family. To illustrate: My wife’s best friend passed away a few weeks ago. Breast cancer. We attended the service, it was very solumn, a service was read. We respectfully said goodbye to our friend. Afterwards, we went to the reception. Food and drink was served. Some funny stories about our friend were shared, and we laughed together. And at some point we probably jested about something unrelated to our friend and laughed again. I’m sure I laughed several times. Is this a problem? ---
**Author:** ![evilhanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba8739/32.png) [@evilhanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilhanz)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/46 "2002-10-31T07:07:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by squeegee \* > **This obviously wasn’t a funeral service, it was a reception.** I’m not sure why you want to argue this point. I agree that there is a difference between a service, a burial, and a reception. I’ve been to my fair share of funerals. However, the event was billed as a Wellstone memorial service **not** a reception. The media portrayed the event as a memorial and continues to do so in discussions of the fallout. Wellstone’s campaign manager, Jeff Blodget [refers](http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/4405919.htm) to the event as a service in today’s apology. > [@](#): > > It was not our intent to inject that into the service. Even Mike Erlandson, Chairman of the Minnesota DFL [called](http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/30/elec02.fallout.memorial/) it a memorial service: > [@](#): > > The Republicans in the middle of a memorial service decided to call it politics. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/47 "2002-10-31T09:23:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\* > > \ > > Well, one way or the other, Antony’s speech worked for him. \*\* Well, at least in the short run. But over the long haul it worked a lot better for Octavian. And the OP, like so many from the same author is _Much Ado About Nothing_. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/48 "2002-10-31T10:57:05Z")
After reading some of the coverage in the Minneapolis Star Tribune, I was moved to open a Pit thread, [How many jackasses can you cram into Williams Arena?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141941). There had been a gentleman’s agreement to hold off on the campaign until after the service. The gentleman kept his word. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/49 "2002-10-31T13:55:30Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **elucidator** _ - > Paul Wellstone was a political animal, body and soul. Leaving politics out of it would be like a memorial for Mozart that specificly excluded music! Don’t be ridiculous! This from the same person who yesterday was complaining that those nasty Republicans were campaigning against Wellstone. Do you ever sprain anything flip-flopping like that? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/50 "2002-10-31T14:32:35Z")
Hey, I found a really cool news clip for December and all the anti-Democrats to play with. [http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/4235242.htm](http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/4235242.htm) > [@](#): > > Tue, Oct. 08, 2002 > > MINNESOTA POLITICS: Interns claim attack > GOP interns say they were roughed up by Wellstone backers while filming the DFL senator > By Brian Bakst > Associated Press > > ST. PAUL Two Republican Party interns say they were roughed up while filming DFL Sen. Paul Wellstone at a weekend rally in Duluth, and they plan to file a police report on Tuesday. > > Jim Crea, 22, said he was punched in the lower back and shoved by unidentified Wellstone supporters after the senator pointed out Crea and a co-worker to the crowd at Saturday’s trade rally. > > At a Capitol news conference Monday, GOP chairman Ron Eibensteiner accused Wellstone of inciting the crowd. > > “Wellstone called for the hit from the podium and his union thugs carried it out with gusto,” Eibensteiner charged. He called on Wellstone to apologize and help identify the alleged perpetrators. > > \< snip \> > > A tape of the encounter shows a smiling Wellstone jokingly “thanking” the Republican cameramen for being there. Later, as Wellstone is delivering his speech, the picture gets shaky and discombobulated. Arguing can be heard faintly in the background. > **[The latest from the StarTribune](https://www.startribune.com/)** > > Follow the StarTribune for the news, photos and videos from the Twin Cities and beyond. > [@](#): > > GOP says Wellstone urged ‘thugs’ to attack cameramen > Mark Brunswick > Published Oct. , 8 > > \< snip \> > > Kevin Fahey, of Gilbert, Minn., a member of the Steelworkers’ Union, said he was in charge of security for the rally and saw the incident. He said a Republican cameraman initiated the violence by kicking a union member in the lower leg. “This kid initiated the physical action, and we protected him,” Fahey said. “No blows were exchanged. There was a little pushing.” > > The incident was the latest episode in a brewing dispute over so-called “trackers” employed by both campaigns to videotape their opponents’ public appearances. Earlier, the two sides complained of their cameras being blocked by the candidates’ supporters. What apparently really happened, if anybody cares. [http://www.mndaily.com/article.php?id=3451&year=2002](http://www.mndaily.com/article.php?id=3451&year=2002) > [@](#): > > October 7, 2002 > Trade rally draws mixed crowd in Duluth > > By Nathan Halverson > > \< snip \> > > As Wellstone began his speech, he thanked the speakers who preceded him and concluded the accolades by thanking the “Republican cameras,” gesturing to an individual with a digital video camera. > > The cameraman was jostled throughout the speech as activists held signs in front his camera and bumped into him. > > At one point, after moving to a new location, the cameraman was pushed into an apparent union worker who responded with kidney-punches into the cameraman’s side. > > Volunteers rushed to the scuffle and escorted away the cameraman, who held his hands in the air. Now, to anybody without a heavy anti-Democrats agenda, all this story proves is that this Minnesota election campaign has been an extremely hard-fought one, so it’s no surprise that the memorial service should have turned into a rally (or, _“What Elucidator Said”._) However, for all the Anti-Democrats, it confirms their impression of the Democrats as Evil Incarnate, and to you I say, go for it, guys! Milk this puppy for all it’s worth, I give you my blessing. Hey, it’s got everything–Wicked Democrats, Abused Republicans, and best of all, it’s Speaking Ill of the Dead! Oh, and, BTW, I couldn’t find anything offhand on the “police report” that the GOP said it was gonna file, so it’s possible that Wellstone’s thugs went around to Coleman’s headquarters and intimidated them. I think y’all should seriously considering racketeering charges against the Minnesota Dems, not to mention “pain and suffering damages” against Wellstone’s estate… Have fun, guys. [note: This post is available in a Sarcasm-Free format for the Sarcasm-Impaired. See the Straight Dope Home Page.] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/51 "2002-10-31T15:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David Simmons \* > \*\* > > Well, at least in the short run. But over the long haul it worked a lot better for Octavian. \*\* Well, true, but that didn’t help Brutus any. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/52 "2002-10-31T15:34:43Z")
I don’t see why some people seem to think that whether Wellstone would have wanted it is so significant. I don’t know what he would have wanted, but if it was this then he was a jerk too. All social situations involve the interaction of people other than the “star”. Commonly accepted standards give people the ability to understand their role and place in it and act accordingly. The fact that someone is the center of attention in a given circumstance does not give carte blanche to act however they want. (If a life insurance agent wants to badger all the guests at his own wedding to buy life insurance from him it is not OK simply because that is what he wants.) A public memorial service for a Senator who died in office is a chance for those of all political persuasions who he represented or who dealt with him politically to appreciate such fine qualities as he may have had. To use this as an opportunity for a political rally is wrong. And more, to take the hand of friendship and bipartisanship being offered by those of other political persuasions and respond with a slap in the face is plain disgusting. No matter what Wellstone may have wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/53 "2002-10-31T16:25:41Z")
> [@](#): > > **IzzyR** \* reveals that: \*A public memorial service for a Senator who died in office is a chance for those of all political persuasions who he represented or who dealt with him politically to appreciate such fine qualities as he may have had. Cite please ? Who exactly defined it that way ? Are there heavy fines and jail time for those who don’t comply with these so-called cultural conventions ? Should there be ? If you want to have such a ready-cooked McMemorial service, you’ll just have to wait until a Republican senator dies. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/54 "2002-10-31T16:26:14Z")
For the record, I am **not** a republican. I rarely ever vote republican and strongly disagree with a large portion of their agenda. However, this was repugnant. Booing people at a memorial service? Giving a campaign speech poorly disguised as a eulogy claiming that it would disrespect Wellstone’s memory and that “We’ll drown in a river of tears” if Mondale doesn’t get elected? If these are truly things that Wellstone would’ve done when he was alive, then that makes Wellstone an asshole. “Everybody does it” isn’t a valid excuse, DDG. **Stoid:** > [@](#): > > I’d just like to say how disgusted and disappointed I am at anyone who makes voting decisions based on something like this. How short-sighted and pathetic is that? I agree- so why did they turn the memorial into a political rally in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/55 "2002-10-31T16:30:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > Cite please ? Who exactly defined it that way ? Culture is defined by conventions of the people. It evolves. I think the surprised reaction of the people in this instance is an indication that the Wellstone memorial represented a departure from cultural norms. > [@](#): > > Are there heavy fines and jail time for those who don’t comply with these so-called cultural conventions ? Should there be ? Going to leave you to figure this out yourself. Think. > [@](#): > > If you want to have such a ready-cooked McMemorial service, you’ll just have to wait until a Republican senator dies. Cute. Very cute. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/56 "2002-10-31T17:10:34Z")
**Mojo** > [@](#): > > I agree- so why did they turn the memorial into a political rally in the first place? So, how’d they do that, **Mojo**? Cunningly placed subliminal advertising? Democrat operatives in the audience, armed with cattle prods to coerce the unwilling masses? How was the perfidy plotted, planned, and executed? How did they manage to get the message out to prospective attendees, “rabid partisans only!” Without anybody else catching on? How’d they do that, **Mojo**? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/57 "2002-10-31T17:22:31Z")
Maybe it was a combination of intent and spontaneity. But it was enough to disgust the governor, move his wife to tears, and cause a flood of phone calls to WCCO-TV. It was enough that a reporter asked Bill Walsh for the Republican response to the rally […shudder…]. It was even enough to bring an apology from Wellstone’s campaign manager. Why are you stooping to defend it? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/58 "2002-10-31T17:29:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mojo \* > **…If these are truly things that Wellstone would’ve done when he was alive, then that makes Wellstone an asshole. “Everybody does it” isn’t a valid excuse, DDG…** Wow, is speaking ill of the dead morally better, equal to or worse than abusing a memorial service? Apart from that, conservatives didn’t need this behavior to call Wellstone such names when he was living, they found plenty of other things to dog him with. I’m sure he probably isn’t bothered by your opinion of him. I think the phrase you may have been seeking was “major-league asshole,” by the way. Or is that a registered slogan mark of the president? ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/59 "2002-10-31T17:31:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > So, how’d they do that, **Mojo**? [here’s](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36517-2002Oct29.html) how: > [@](#): > > This official also said White House advisers worried that the memorial service, **with unions bringing supporters by the busload** , would double as a Democrat get-out-the-vote rally and be awkward for Cheney. When you stack the audience with partisans, and rev them up with political speeches, that’s what you get. Per my first post to this thread - from the AP, before the service: [Thousands Gather to Honor Wellstone](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37943-2002Oct29.html) > [@](#): > > At the memorial, folk and gospel singers were to lead musicians in “Stand Up, Keep Fighting,” written a few months ago for the campaign. Political analysts said the evening would be heavy with such sentiments, which could boost Wellstone’s replacement without being overly political. > > “Anything else is a little inappropriate or would be perceived as inappropriate and in poor taste,” said Lilly Goren, a political scientist at the College of St. Catherine in St. Paul. > [@](#): > > Any mention of Mondale at the memorial service probably would only note that Wellstone shared views consistent with Minnesota’s Humphrey-Mondale political tradition, Goren said. _That_ is what one might consider appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/60 "2002-10-31T17:34:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*…But it was enough to disgust the governor, move his wife to tears, and cause a flood of phone calls to WCCO-TV. … > > Why are you stooping to defend it? \*\* Why are people suddenly looking to Jesse Ventura as an arbiter of accepatable decorum? And, “moved to tears?” Please! Either this is hyperbole, and should be dismissed, or a case of exceptional hypersensitivity, and should be treated. Why are you bothering to get upset about it, seeing as how it was a service for someone (I presume) not related to you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526.md?page=4)