# Wellstone Farewell Becomes Political -- Will it backfire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2002, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526 "2002-10-30T12:31:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/61 "2002-10-31T17:36:42Z")
> [@](#): > > “Everybody does it” isn’t a valid excuse, DDG. > [@](#): > > Why are you stooping to defend it? Geez, you people are carrying on like they sacrificed a couple of infants on stage or something. Get a grip. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/62 "2002-10-31T17:51:32Z")
They sacrificed honor, integrity, and goodwill. They had made a pledge to stop campaigning until after the memorial service. They proved themselves to be liars, hucksters, and cheap trailer park trash. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/63 "2002-10-31T17:53:13Z")
Sorry- I thought this was Great Debates and figured that pointing out that an argument was “ad populum” was fair game. And for the “speaking ill of the dead” crack, I think that acting like an asshole and then claiming that’s what the deceased would have wanted does a greater disservice than anything I’ve said here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/64 "2002-10-31T18:04:13Z")
**Lib** , you’re full of beans on this one. It was the people _themselves_ who were full of partisan spirit, they brought it with them, it wasn’t trucked in, it was already _there_. To some of us, politics is _about_ feelings: feelings like compassion, empathy, generosity and pride in an America that embodies those. In that spirit, as I post from my double-wide “mobile home”, I will overlook the “cheap trailer park trash” remark. It is beneath you, and I am assured you are already regretful. As well you should be. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/65 "2002-10-31T18:12:59Z")
> [@](#): > > **DDG** said: Geez, you people are carrying on like they sacrificed a couple of infants on stage or something. Get a grip. These people are CONSERVATIVES. They don’t feel that the ceremony was up to the level of **their** cultural standards. It was too _radical_ for them. Of course they’re going to whine about it. If they were allowed to have their druthers, we’d still be dressing up in sack-cloth and ashes and beating ourselves with chains whenever someone important died. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/66 "2002-10-31T18:36:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that acting like an asshole and then claiming that’s what the deceased would have wanted But that’s only if in your opinion the people involved acted like assholes. Which is not the opinion of other people here. > [@](#): > > They sacrificed honor, integrity, and goodwill…They proved themselves to be liars, hucksters, and cheap trailer park trash. Oh, for heaven’s sake. :rolleyes: _Listen_ to yourself piously preaching, will ya? Nobody sacrificed any honor or goodwill, nobody proved themselves to be “cheap trailer park trash”. Kahn got carried away with his speechifying, nature took its course, and you sound hysterical. Go take a pill or lie down or something. If the Dems “sacrificed goodwill”, then huccome Mondale still has a solid lead? Huccome people aren’t deserting the Democrats in disgusted droves? [http://www.brainerddispatch.com/stories/103002/sne\_1030020011.shtml](http://www.brainerddispatch.com/stories/103002/sne_1030020011.shtml) > [@](#): > > Web posted Wednesday, October 30, 2002 > > MINNEAPOLIS (AP) – A poll showed Walter Mondale, who will likely replace Paul Wellstone as the Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate, held a solid lead over Republican challenger Norm Coleman. > > The death of Sen. Paul Wellstone apparently had little effect on Minnesotans’ leanings in the U.S. Senate race, the Minnesota Poll for the Star Tribune of Minneapolis showed. > > Mondale leads Coleman 47 percent to 39 percent, the poll showed. That’s close to where the race stood two weeks ago when Wellstone led Coleman 47 to 41 percent. And–among other vitally important national issues that have caused WCCO-TV to be “flooded with phone calls”…The Santaniello Incident… > **[The latest from the StarTribune](https://www.startribune.com/)** > > Follow the StarTribune for the news, photos and videos from the Twin Cities and beyond. > [@](#): > > C.J.: WCCO-TV gives birth to PR nightmare by reassigning new mom Santaniello > > Published Oct 24, 2002 > > We should feel sorry for TV station switchboard/receptionists. They’re the ones who field phone calls from furious viewers when TV execs jerk around people such as WCCO-TV anchor Amelia Santaniello. Be kind to them. They probably are not paid all that well, and they should get combat pay for times like these. I can’t even play tennis without someone alluding to 'CCO’s decision to yank Santaniello off the 10 p.m. show while on maternity leave with twins. The sheer insensitivity of the change has appalled many – and struck a nerve with working mothers. > > The first wave of e-mails were unprintably vicious attacks on Randi Kaye, a weekend anchor who has been keeping Santaniello’s seat warm during her pregnancy-induced bedrest and maternity leave. Kaye will take over the 10 and 5 shows, leaving Santaniello with only the 6 p.m. > > Granted, WCCO managers had a dilemma on their hands: Other stations may have been interested in Kaye, who is peaking and probably wanting off weekends. But they’ve created a PR horror with their atrocious handling of this. I get the feeling that the station’s slash-and-burn bosses are ignoring contacts from viewers. Otherwise, 332-TIPS and my other lines of communications wouldn’t be so flooded. > > _C.J. is the Star Tribune’s gossip maven. Her column appears in the Metro section on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. Call 612-332-TIPS with your comments and celebrity sightings. E-mail? Forget about it._ So, last week it was the Santaniello Incident, this week it’s the Wellstone Rally. Next week it’ll be something else that has the good citizens of the Twin Cities in Terminal Self-Inflicted Wedgie Mode, reaching for their phone books to give somebody, somewhere, a piece of their mind. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/67 "2002-10-31T18:46:49Z")
> [@](#): > > If the Dems “sacrificed goodwill”, then huccome Mondale still has a solid lead? Because this is a far cry from being the only issue in the election. I agree with Stoid that you’d have to be a moron to make this your deciding issue on who to vote for in the upcoming election, but I never claimed it should be. It was far from tasteful or spontaneous. Hentor the Barbarian asked why Ventura is the measuring stick for decorum- I’d say that it speaks volumes that a former professional wrestler and XFL announcer thinks that this is in bad taste. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/68 "2002-10-31T19:01:13Z")
#^&$@#&ing hamsters. > [@](#): > > DDG: If the Dems “sacrificed goodwill”, then huccome Mondale still has a solid lead? Huccome people aren’t deserting the Democrats in disgusted droves? Because this is far from the only issue in the election. I’d think that anyone who based their vote on this alone is a moron. AFAIK, Mondale didn’t do anything out of line even though (I believe) his supporters did. And to claim that this was tasteful or spontaneous is wrong. > [@](#): > > Hentor the Barbarian: Why are people suddenly looking to Jesse Ventura as an arbiter of accepatable decorum? I think it speaks volumes that a former professional wrestler and XFL announcer found that it was tasteless. ---
**Author:** ![JDM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/90db22/32.png) [@JDM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDM)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/69 "2002-10-31T19:56:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mojo \* > \*\*I think it speaks volumes that a former professional wrestler and XFL announcer found that it was tasteless. \*\* You know, I completely disagree with your position, but I have to say that that is one of the best responses I have ever seen on the SDMB. JDM ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/70 "2002-10-31T19:56:35Z")
sorry **Izzy** but if the _remaining family members_ aren’t up in arms, I don’t really think it’s incumbant upon you, **Lib** or Jesse to pontificate about how inappropriate you found it. I told my son, that as far as I was concerned, he shouldn’t feel in any way obligated to have any kind of solemn ceremony when it’s my time. And Snookie has indicated that when it’s his turn he’s insisting that his coffin not be there on time, so as to not prove him mother wrong. And somehow or nother I think it’ll be just fine if you, \*\*december, Lib \*\* and Jesse the body find it appauling, disgraceful and any other adjectives you select. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/71 "2002-10-31T20:07:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > If the Dems “sacrificed goodwill”, then huccome Mondale still has a solid lead? Huccome people aren’t deserting the Democrats in disgusted droves? Among other things, I believe that poll was taken before the ceremony. Time will tell. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > sorry Izzy but if the remaining family members aren’t up in arms, I don’t really think it’s incumbant upon you, Lib or Jesse to pontificate about how inappropriate you found it. Not incumbent, but I shall pontificate anyway. It was not incumbent on you to pontificate for over 7,000 posts to this MB, but that hasn’t stopped you yet. People can pontificate about whatever they want. And the reason they want to in this case is because Wellstone was a public figure and the ceremony was a public event. What your son does at your funeral will likely not attract nearly as much comment. As I’ve noted before, I don’t think Wellstone’s own opinion is especially significant to my judgement of the event, let alone that of his family members. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/72 "2002-10-31T20:09:04Z")
**I don’t get it**. If it was just one speaker primarily responsible by giving a rabidly partisan, rallying-type speech, why do we have this constant reference to “THEY” as in the Democratic party? Is the insinuation here that the speech, and occasional other politically partisan features in the memorial service were all _ **planned** _ and executed? As in, THEY planned on bringing in busloads of Dem supporters… THEY urged Kahn to give such a speech… THEY urged some speakers to refer to the election…all with the overall intention of using the telecast as a political rally playing on people’s emotions…? If that were the case, it was indeed in very poor taste IMO (but still may be nothing as dramatic within the dirty political world as it is made out to be) and yes, the OP’s take may very well happen. If not, let’s give it a rest. If voters are going to be swayed by this eitherways, they show their lack of critical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/73 "2002-10-31T20:16:34Z")
Yep, let’s all cry a river for the oh-so-conveniently offended sensibilities of GOP-partisans. I’m shocked, _shocked_! that at a service for a politician there was politics!! Where will it all end!??! Give me a friggin break. ---
**Author:** ![JDM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/90db22/32.png) [@JDM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDM)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/74 "2002-10-31T20:30:14Z")
I just had another thought about this. Last year I watched the memorial service for the victims of the Sep. 11 horrors. There were various posts on these boards about whether or not the very Christian tone of that service, and various of GWB’s statements at the time, were exclusionary at a time when unity was desperately needed. [This thread,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=87306) for instance. At that service, the final sermon was given by Billy Graham. He gave, for about the first two thirds, a moving sermon. After that, though, he began to slip into evangelist mode, and by the end he was almost back to one of his revival speeches (we watched them regularly when I was growing up). I fully expected the organist to start playing “Just As I Am” at the end of it (for those who don’t know or remember, that was the hymn that he always had played when he was exhorting the audience to come to the stage and publicly join the Christian community). I would ask **Lib** and the others who are attacking the Wellstone gathering if you are equally upset at Billy Graham’s pushing of his agenda during a service in memory of the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks? If not, what’s the difference? JDM ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/75 "2002-10-31T20:46:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \*sorry **Izzy** but if the _remaining family members_ aren’t up in arms, I don’t really think it’s incumbant upon you, **Lib** or Jesse to pontificate about how inappropriate you found it. We are debating two issues here: – Was the ceremony inappropriate? – Will the ceremony hurt Democrats. You’re arguing the first question. Let’s turn to the second. The ceremony got Democrats a nationwide black eye. E.g., WaPo media critic [Howard Kurtz (a Democrat) wrote today](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45007-2002Oct31.html): > [@](#): > > **Making of a Minnesota Debacle** > > How badly can a political party screw up a memorial service? > > Just ask Minnesota’s Democrats. > > They staged a public farewell for Paul Wellstone that was so over the top, so blatantly partisan, that Jesse Ventura walked out. > > “I feel used,” the independent governor said afterward. “I feel violated and duped over the fact that it turned into a political rally. . . . I think the Democrats should hang their head in shame.” > > How did it come to this? It should have been a piece of cake for the DFLers to honor Wellstone in a dignified way, setting the stage for Walter Mondale to accept the nomination last night. After all, 20,000 people showed up. After all, Mondale was riding a wave of emotion without having done a single thing. After all, a new poll has Mondale up 8 points over Norm Coleman. > > Instead, Ventura was booed at the service, as was Trent Lott. What sensitivity! They show up to honor a man from a different political party and they’re razzed like the opposing team at a Vikings game. In effect, the service was hijacked in a small-minded way that detracted from the memory of Wellstone. > > Tom Harkin bellowed: “We pay tribute to a leader – a true DFL liberal! That’s right! A DFL liberal, who constantly reminded those of us who are Democrats of the real center of gravity of our party.” Son Mark Wellstone thrust his finger in the air and shouted: “We will win! We will win!” At one point, the crowd erupted: “Fritz! Fritz! Fritz!” > > Even former Wellstone campaign aides had to apologize. Adding to this damage is the indication that local media will give extra coverage to Bush’s visit to Minnesota this weekend, as a kind of make-up for the 3 1/2 hours of prime-time coverage they gave to the Wellstone ceremony. So, I would say that the politicization of the Wellstone memorial backfired big time. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/76 "2002-10-31T22:00:26Z")
More like **manufacturing of a fake debacle** for political purposes. [The Republican lies](http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh103102.shtml) about what happened have begun already. It turns out that there were ‘scattered boos’, nothing widespread, and nothing at all organized or encouraged by the people in charge. Sure, booing was bad form, but so what? It’s not like you can ever expect 100% of a crowd of 20,000 people to behave. One thing you can count on though. Republicans will lie and spin, and December will read their talking points and quote them on this board :rolleyes: I have now Idea whether or not Gov Ventura is unpopular in Minnesota, I suspect he is or he would be running again. But in any case, I can tell bullshit when I hear it. He’s completely overstating things as an excuse to break a promise. Ventura is now saying that _because of this_ he’s planning to appoint a non-democrat to fill the remander of Wellstone’s term. A few people boo him (inappropriate, yes, but not exactly uncommon for political types), and now he’s claiming that this gives him the right to change the ballance of power in the Senate, if only for a few days. You probably blanked this one out, **december**. But I recall that Hillary Clinton was booed at the funeral for NY Firefighters. A funeral. The republican press called them ‘heroes’ for booing her! ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/77 "2002-10-31T22:11:50Z")
Ahh I get it now. This is really about [Free air time](http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/3400441.html) for Republicans. > [@](#): > > The state GOP asked for equal air time to match the 3 1/2 hours the memorial was on TV Tuesday night. How crass. One 15 minute speach was political, and The pubbys think that entitles them to 3 1/2 hours of free air time. Well here’s a news flash for you. The “Fairness doctrine”, That is, the rule that ‘opposing points of view get equal time’, was killed off by the republicans a few years ago. (I’ll bet you never noticed that the ‘equal time’ stuff you used to see on TV wasn’t happening any more. ) But, Hell, I say give them their 3 1/2 hours. It will shut them up, and there is no way that they can use it in a way that will be as powerful as Wellstone’s death. They might even embarrass themselves 😉 ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/78 "2002-10-31T22:15:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tejota \* > One thing you can count on though. Republicans will lie and spin, and December will read their talking points and quote them on this board Strange thing is that this has not actually happened. So you found a source for criticism of some obscure Republican pundit. Nice job. But the “lies” that she is being found guilty of have not been cited on this board by december or anyone else. It would appear that you are trying to distract from legitimate criticism. > [@](#): > > But I recall that Hillary Clinton was booed at the funeral for NY Firefighters. A funeral. The republican press called them ‘heroes’ for booing her! I believe this last sentence is untrue. One might even call it a “Tejota lie”. Back it up. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/79 "2002-10-31T22:22:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tejota \*Republicans will lie and spin, and December will read their talking points and quote them on this board :rolleyes: I believe Bob Somerby that those particular comments by those particular individuals were inaccurate. I’m quite a fan of the Daily Howler. But, why blame me? The OP cited a news report from a Minnesota newpaper; there’s no reason to think that the reporter was a Republican or was spinning. My recent cite was a column by Howard Kurtz, who is a Democrat. Kurtz called it a “debacle.” > [@](#): > > You probably blanked this one out, **december**. But I recall that Hillary Clinton was booed at the funeral for NY Firefighters. A funeral. The republican press called them ‘heroes’ for booing her! I recall it too. Actually the reaction in the conservative media was mixed. In any event, that wasn’t a case of the Republican Party choosing to politicize a memorial service. It was something done by some NYC firemen. It was hard for anyone to criticize an NYC fireman at that point in time. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526/80 "2002-10-31T22:35:58Z")
\*\*december \*\* so, you’re willing to concede that the first question “was it tasteless” the answer is “to some people, but obviously not to those most personally affected” ?? re: second question: those who seem to be making the most noise are those who also coincidently wouldn’t be likely to vote Dem anyhow. There may be some individuals who will say their vote was swayed by this, but I don’t see any evidence that there’s sufficient numbers of them to sway the election. **Izzy** - sure we’re all allowed our own personal opinions, however, when it comes to making the decision as to how best to run a memorial for some one who died, I’d rather let the remaining family members judge what is best, rather than, say random people on a message board. Also, in your haste to spank **tejote** , you neatly avoid acknowledging that in large public gatherings, **some people** (of all backgrounds and political persuasions), will behave poorly, and that the larger groups with whom they belong shouldn’t be held accountable for the poor behavior of some members. So, we’ll won’t hold the republicans for those folks booing Hilary at the 911 Memorial and ditto for the Dems re the folks booing Trent/Jessie here, fair enough? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellstone-farewell-becomes-political-will-it-backfire/134526.md?page=5)