# "Wellville"... is this true? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 18, 2001, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255 "2001-06-18T22:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![catmandu42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@catmandu42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catmandu42)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2001, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/1 "2001-06-18T22:17:25Z")
Just saw the movie “Wellville” a few days ago, and being originaly from around Battle Creek, MI, it got me wondering. Is this movie based on fact? Did our beloved Mr. Kellogg of cereal renown actually run a sanitarium such as the one depicted? What’s the deal here? Am I forever doomed to eat my corn flakes with thoughts of electroshock therapy and bowel movements dancing in my brain? EEK!! ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2001, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/2 "2001-06-18T22:22:22Z")
The movie is on the right track, but remember that the film is based on a novel by T. Coraghessan Boyle. But there were a lot of health fads at the time in the U.S. They have been replaced by other health fads. You pays your money, you take your chance. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2001, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/3 "2001-06-18T22:34:15Z")
Yep, Kellogg was that nuts. Here’s a few sites: [Porn Flakes](http://www.ibiblio.org/stayfree/10/graham.htm) - This goes to show that both Sylvester Graham (of Graham cracker fame) and Dr. John Harvey Kellogg (of Kellogg’s breakfast cereal fame) were, in fact, batshit insane. [The Battle Creek Vibratory Chair](http://www.mtn.org/quack/devices/k-chair.htm) - This was used at the sanitarium Kellogg ran. They actually thought it would do people good. [Dr. John Harvey Kellogg](http://www.mtn.org/quack/amquacks/kellogg.htm) - The man was a quack and proposed unsafe treatments. ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2001, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/4 "2001-06-18T22:45:55Z")
- - - At the time the movie “The Road To Wellville” came out, a magazine I saw ran the real history of what happened around that time, concerning the Kellogg family/business. What’s a shame is the truth was at least as interesting as the fake movie, _and it would have been the truth besides_. I assume there were legal reasons for not using it for the movie; not all of it was attractive and it didn’t end happy. The movie’s story was just plain stupid (-an operation to cure opium addiction? — mmmmmkay). - MC ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/5 "2001-06-19T02:16:47Z")
Also, there was one big inconsistency between the epilogues of the book and movie. In the book, Boyle describes Kellogg as being fit and healthy into his 90’s. The movie has him croaking at 70-something while showing off for reporters. According to [this page](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9840/kellogg.html)at the Battle Creek Historical Society, the book’s version of Kellogg’s death is the accurate one. While the image of the militant health and fitness advocate dropping dead just like the rest of us is no doubt satisfying to many, it’s just not true in this case. –sublight. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/6 "2001-06-19T03:50:23Z")
I suspect that the movie account of Mr. Kellogg’s death (as opposed to his real death) was inspired by the death of another health-food crank, J.I. Rodale. You may recall (or you may have heard the legend) of how Rodale died on the couch of the Dick Cavett Show, moments after boasting that he was as healthy as a horse, and would surely live to be 100. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2001, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/7 "2001-06-19T05:09:38Z")
Yep. Snopes mentions him [here](http://www.snopes2.com/spoons/noose/dead.htm), along with a number of other folks who died on-camera or onstage. –sublight. “Are we boring you, Mr. Rodale?” ---
**Author:** ![billklein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@billklein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billklein)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/8 "2014-09-26T08:04:06Z")
> [@catmandu42](#): > > Just saw the movie “Wellville” a few days ago, and being originaly from around Battle Creek, MI, it got me wondering. Is this movie based on fact? Did our beloved Mr. Kellogg of cereal renown actually run a sanitarium such as the one depicted? What’s the deal here? Am I forever doomed to eat my corn flakes with thoughts of electroshock therapy and bowel movements dancing in my brain? EEK!! Check out Wikipedia. Dr. Kellog (was 7th Day Adventist, head of sanitarium, invented cornflakes, was vegetarian, crusaded against masturbation, advised in his “The Art of Massage” to cleanse the bladder and bowels of his subjects. This 240 page illustrated manual for the “Student the Nurse and the Practitioner” (5th edition, 1909) covers anatomy, physiology, tapping, kneading, friction, percussion, etc. It covers how to massage the hand, the head, abdomen, cervix,uterus, prostate, etc. I imagine eating my corn flakes on the massage table with one or two fingers inside and the other hand outside etc etc.Only lived to age 91. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/9 "2014-09-26T08:26:19Z")
Hi **billklein** , welcome to the SDMB. Just an FYI - the poster you’re responding to hasn’t been active since 2003, you probably won’t get a response. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/10 "2014-09-26T09:02:03Z")
Apparently Kellogg also advocated both male and female circumcision without pain relief to make a link in the victim’s mind between sex and pain, and thought his bland diet would reduce the libido, he even warned married couples not to have excessive sex. Dude was pretty messed up mentally. He also supported racial segregation and the eugenics movement, but that wouldn’t be that odd for a his time. > **[John Harvey Kellogg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg)** > > Divisions > John Harvey Kellogg (February 26, 1852 – December 14, 1943) was an American businessman, inventor, physician, and advocate of the Progressive Movement. He was the director of the Battle Creek Sanitarium in Battle Creek, Michigan, founded by members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. It combined aspects of a European spa, a hydrotherapy institution, a hospital and high-class hotel. Kellogg treated the rich and famous, as well as the poor who could not afford other hospitals. Accord... > [@](#): > > Kellogg worked on the rehabilitation of masturbators, often employing extreme measures, even mutilation, on both sexes. He was an advocate of circumcising young boys to curb masturbation and applying phenol to a young woman’s clitoris. In his Plain Facts for Old and Young,[7] he wrote: > > “ A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed. ” > further > > “ a method of treatment [to prevent masturbation] … and we have employed it with entire satisfaction. It consists in the application of one or more silver sutures in such a way as to prevent erection. The prepuce, or foreskin, is drawn forward over the glans, and the needle to which the wire is attached is passed through from one side to the other. After drawing the wire through, the ends are twisted together, and cut off close. It is now impossible for an erection to occur, and the slight irritation thus produced acts as a most powerful means of overcoming the disposition to resort to the practice ” > and > > “ In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid (phenol) to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement. ” > He also recommended, to prevent children from this “solitary vice”, bandaging or tying their hands, covering their genitals with patented cages and electrical shock.[7] > > In his Ladies’ Guide in Health and Disease, for nymphomania, he recommended > > “ Cool sitz baths; the cool enema; a spare diet; the application of blisters and other irritants to the sensitive parts of the sexual organs, the removal of the clitoris and nymphae… ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/11 "2014-09-26T09:52:05Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > The movie is on the right track, but remember that the film is based on a novel by T. Coraghessan Boyle. > > But there were a lot of health fads at the time in the U.S. They have been replaced by other health fads. > > You pays your money, you take your chance. Ever read Jethro Kloss’ Back to Eden? Herbalism, vegetarianism … and almost every suggested treatment more or less starts with an immediate high enema :eek: These maniacs are the beginning of the whole 'You have X amount of rotting meat in your colon and need constant enemas …" crud. Some things are not such bad ideas, like the idea of thoroughly chewing your food, not eating quite the deep fried all meat no veggies and washing it down with beer/booze diet, taking exercise, corsets are bad for women stuff. If Kellog and others could have toned down the enemas and avid vegetarianism the lifestyle changes are really fairly sensible. Not that there is anything wrong with vegetarianism, veganism or omnivorism if a balanced and nutritional NONFAD diet is followed. It is when you get into some of the extreme versions with no real reason [gluten avoiders/paleofaddists for hipster reasons … and people claiming allergies without being allergic need to just fucking STOP.] [URL=“[http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/](http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/)”] ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/12 "2014-09-26T13:28:23Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Ever read Jethro Kloss’ Back to Eden? The book wasn’t yet published in 2001, back when **BobT** wrote the post. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/13 "2014-09-26T13:45:10Z")
A Kellogg baker moved to Australia and started up this > **[Sanitarium Health and Wellbeing Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitarium_Health_and_Wellbeing_Company)** > > Divisions > The Sanitarium Health and Wellbeing Company is the trading name of two sister food companies (Australian Health and Nutrition Association Ltd and New Zealand Health Association Ltd). Both are wholly owned by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. > Founded in Melbourne, Victoria, in 1898, Sanitarium has factories in Australia and New Zealand, producing a large range of breakfast cereals and vegetarian products. All the food products it manufactures and markets are plant derived or vegeta... They still avoid making sugar or fatty breakfast products… unlike Kelloggs. I don’t know if they zip their workers… hmm ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/14 "2014-09-27T14:25:20Z")
Yeah, if you read up on Kellogg, you get the impression that Anthony Hopkins’ portrayal was, if anything, tastefully restrained. Your word for the day: [klismaphile](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klismaphilia). ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/15 "2014-09-27T14:39:33Z")
BTW, although Sylvester Graham was hung up on stopping people from masturbating (it made you insane!) or having “impure thoughts”, his ideas on hygiene and diet were actually pretty sound, if boring. Especially for his day. In short, Sylvester Graham was nowhere near the level of bat shit insanity found in Kellogg. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/16 "2014-09-27T15:45:51Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Ever read Jethro Kloss’ Back to Eden? > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The book wasn’t yet published in 2001, back when **BobT** wrote the post. If that’s a joke, ummm well done, yeah, that’s the ticket. If you’re serious, you may be the victim of misinformation regarding a reprinting date. The book was published in 1939. [cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Ehret#cite_ref-Jethro_Kloss_1939_95-1) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/17 "2014-09-27T16:06:56Z")
Can’t believe I’m the first to post this- The Master Speaks: [Is it true graham crackers were invented to cure the dread fever of lust?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/394/is-it-true-graham-crackers-were-invented-to-cure-the-dread-fever-of-lust) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/18 "2014-09-27T16:21:25Z")
And it even took YOU thirteen years… ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/19 "2014-09-27T16:28:45Z")
zombie or no crumbs in bed are a turn-off. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255/20 "2014-09-27T16:32:53Z")
And sometime in the past, Cecil’s article may have been source material for what I posted above concerning Sylvester Graham. From the article: > [@](#): > > His saving grace was that in many important respects he was right. Although he was a little goofy on the question of sex, many of his ideas about health were sound. He advocated daily toothbrushing, once considered a revolutionary idea, as well as fresh air, regular bathing, exercise, and seven hours of sleep. During an era of recurring cholera epidemics he urged people to drink pure water. > > Most important, we now know the diet he recommended to be vastly more healthy than the one Americans were eating at the time, or for that matter eat today. He railed against commercial bakers who used refined flour devoid of dietary fiber. He urged the consumption of fresh fruits, vegetables, grains, and seeds. Strictly verboten were fat, salt, sugar, tobacco, alcohol, and stimulants. Modern dieticians aren’t as strongly opposed to meat as he was (although they’d certainly advise fish and poultry rather than red meat), and they’d go easy on the fat- and cholesterol-laden milk, cheese, and eggs he recommended. But by and large “the prophet of bran bread and pumpkins” was right on the money. He didn’t want anything to be spiced because he thought spices and meat “inflamed passions”. OK, I’ll concede a reasonable vegetarian diet as healthful, although I’m not about to eat that way, but a vegetarian diet without being able to season the things to bribe myself to eat them? … [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wellville-is-this-true/69255.md?page=2)