# Welp, Democracy was fun. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956 "2004-06-30T22:09:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/61 "2004-07-01T07:42:20Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > OK…so far it’s \*\*Reeder, Exgineer, Doors \*\* and **Silenus** on barricade duty. Anybody else? We’ve got plenty of guns to go around… > > Man, this barricade is going to be _sparse_! 😃 Oh please. :rolleyes: You think you have problems? Try recruiting people to attack the barricade. I could probably get **Elucidator** if I tell him Willie Nelson is playing. Dunno. Maybe a few others if I tell 'em the barricade was built by a no-bid contract that Bushco gave to Halliburton, but again, that’s iffy. And of course, I’ll get some radical enviros by telling them the barricade blocks the natural migration route of the ‘spotted barn snipe’ or something. It’ll be slim pickings for **World War Dope**. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/62 "2004-07-01T10:34:50Z")
Things like this make my little knees jerk. In the case of “Okay, New York City just got incinerated and all those dangling chads are now so many cinders; we call a do-over for the general vicinity,” I sigh and nod and realize that my usual all-night election night coverage will have to wait. In the case of “Woop, someone bombed us again, guess it really isn’t time for a new president, don’t change horses midstream, wakka wakka,” I’d get a gun. Or I’d go to my dad’s and borrow one of his, and the family would either bunker down or drive to Washington. Failing that, Canada’s nice this time of year. I’m dead-dog serious. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/63 "2004-07-01T11:26:01Z")
My parents were working at the polls in NY when they were closed–at 11:00, they just were told to secure all the materials in the back of the machines and lock them up, sign an attendance sheet, and go home. The election HQ downtown was evacuated anyway. The mandatory policeman (who’s needed to sign off on the machine locks at the end of the day) had long since been activated and left his post. As they left for home, they remember all the police and firemen in this heavily Irish neighborhood rushing to get on duty. Twelve people from their neighborhood never came home that day ☹ But the point was that the decision to close was made by the Mayor, not the President. States run elections in this country. I don’t know why people think each and every Mayor and Governor would sign onto this cancellation. A postponement–well, we had one and all that happened was the election was rescheduled two weeks later. Nixon didn’t cancel elections, Lincoln didn’t, Roosevelt II didn’t…chill, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/64 "2004-07-01T11:38:34Z")
Yes, states are (ostensibly) in charge of elections, but I think the point that the OP is making is that certain powerful people want to federalize them. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/65 "2004-07-01T11:59:12Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Those of us who honestly feel that aliens have planted brain control devices in our butts can hardly be blamed for taking steps to prevent these aliens from activating their devices, no? :rolleyes: Yeah, like I just IMAGINED that the Supreme Court made an extraordinary, one-time-only selection of the President. And I IMAGINED those illegally purged voters in Florida. And I IMAGINED those illegal undated absentee ballots. Your attempt at dismissing this as tinfoil hattery shows either a wilfull ignorance of the circumstances, or simple ignorance. Either way, it doesn’t impress. Whyncha go read one of the nice, long threads we had debating the election and get back to us when you have an opinion worth considering? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/66 "2004-07-01T12:03:01Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > There’s no point in dragging in the 2000 election. I’m sure if the outcome had gone the other way and more people had voted for Bush but Gore got elected, Conservatives would have quietly let the issue drop and not made any further mention of it. There is a point, though I agree reopening the debate over the election would be a hijack. The point is that given that you believe the 2000 election was stolen, the idea of using some kind of idiot bureaucrat’s mindless blah blah blah as a pretext for cancelling the 2004 election if it goes the wrong way seems fairly credible to some of us. Let’s face it … Bushco has a rap sheet in the matter of subverting elections. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/67 "2004-07-01T12:13:19Z")
Hey, you’re going to need more than just guns at the barricades, you know. You’ll need scouts, and rapid response squads, and exciting stuff like that. How 'bout I start enrolling the cavalry division? I’ve even got a [spare horse](http://community.webshots.com/photo/735286/128041607qXSSvk). Who’s with me? ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/68 "2004-07-01T12:30:56Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Remember, the worst-case-scenario that you fear is precisely the thing that us conservatives want to keep our guns for. So, supposing that the administration postpones or cancels the election, we shouldn’t worry - because the people who support and defend the administration are the ones with the guns? I feel better :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/69 "2004-07-01T13:09:55Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Remember, the worst-case-scenario that you fear is precisely the thing that us conservatives want to keep our guns for. Internal political consistency, you see. So you can shoot “liberal traitors” who object to President-For-Life Bush, no doubt. Sorry, Pubbies, but you already have shown your commitment to a representative democracy by your band of thugs who physically intimidated the vote-counters in Florida, by your demonization of any dissent against The Leader, by your embrace of a Federal amendment to strip an entire class of citizens of their civil rights, your sparty’s support of torture in routine interrogation, and by your demonstrated contempt for Constitutional legal protections for criminal suspects. And wasn’t it Dubya who said, "George Bush: “If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long I’m the dictator”? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/70 "2004-07-01T13:15:25Z")
Goddamn, but you do sound like such a moron, **Gobear**. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/71 "2004-07-01T13:20:37Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Goddamn, but you do sound like such a moron, **Gobear**. What part of what Gobear said was untrue? Face it, the Pubbies have a long rap sheet wrt to crimes against democracy. No amount of calling people “morons” or “tinfoil hatters” is gonna make it go bye-bye. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/72 "2004-07-01T13:28:21Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Your attempt at dismissing this as tinfoil hattery shows either a wilfull ignorance of the circumstances, or simple ignorance. Either way, it doesn’t impress. Whyncha go read one of the nice, long threads we had debating the election and get back to us when you have an opinion worth considering? No, what it shows is that I looked at the situation \*without a partisan axe to grind, and came to the conclusion that all of the blathering from Democrats was nothing more than partisan cry baby whining (and I have no doubt the Pubbies would be doing the exact same thing were the situation reversed). If you don’t like the system, fine, change it, lobby to abolish the EC, do whatever you feel necessary, but you can’t make it retroactive, and you need to just get over the fact that Gore carried the popular vote and still _lost the election_. Big fucking deal, he can hang out in the afterlife with Samuel J Tilden. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/73 "2004-07-01T13:41:12Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > So you can shoot “liberal traitors” who object to President-For-Life Bush, no doubt. Well, that isn’t true, is it? _Gobear Truthometer_: -1 > [@](#): > > Sorry, Pubbies, As well he should be. _Gobear Truthometer_: 0 > [@](#): > > but you already have shown your commitment to a representative democracy by your band of thugs who physically intimidated the vote-counters in Florida, Sign-waving protesters may be many things, but are certainly not thugs. _Gobear Truthometer_: -1 > [@](#): > > by your demonization of any dissent against The Leader, Heh, and he has the yarbles to claim its the Republicans doing the ‘demonization’? _Gobear Truthometer_: -2 > [@](#): > > by your embrace of a Federal amendment to strip an entire class of citizens of their civil rights, Since more [than half](http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm) of dems also support a proposed amendment, gonna have to chalk this up as meaningless. _Gobear Truthometer_: -3 > [@](#): > > your sparty’s support of torture in routine interrogation, Heh, notice the qualifiers. ‘Routine’, eh? For that Moore-eque manuever, gonna have to dock him points. After all, [not all Dems are so fucking short-sighted](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24867-2004Jun8.html) when it comes to dealing with terrorists. _Gobear Truthometer_: -4 > [@](#): > > and by your demonstrated contempt for Constitutional legal protections for criminal suspects. Not ‘crimainal suspects’. ‘Enemy combatants’, a designation the USC supports. _Gobear Truthometer_: -5 > [@](#): > > And wasn’t it Dubya who said, "George Bush: “If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long I’m the dictator”? Gotta dock the idiot for selective quoting. The full quote is: > [@](#): > > I told all four that there were going to be some times where we don’t agree with each other. But that’s OK. If this were a dictatorship, it’d be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictator. _Gobear Truthometer_: -6 Not looking good for **Gobear**. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/74 "2004-07-01T13:43:46Z")
As long as the rules set a definite period of time as a delay, something like 1 to 2 weeks, I wouldn’t mind so much. The thing is that many people still think the bombings in Spain changed the election results. I’m not sure they did and I don’t want to argue that. But here in the US GWB’s numbers were their highest just after 9/11. If another, catastrophic attack occured on his watch would he get the same bounce in poll numbers? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/75 "2004-07-01T13:47:07Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > But here in the US GWB’s numbers were their highest just after 9/11. If another, catastrophic attack occured on his watch would he get the same bounce in poll numbers? I think so. It seems that whenever many people die, the president gets a boost. 9/11, commencement of Iraq invasion, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/76 "2004-07-01T13:51:33Z")
> [@Zoff](#): > > That phrasing looks to me to mean that he’s really talking about postponement. Slight hijack here, but I’m curious: has the right to vote _ever_ been temporarily suspended, then reinstated by the same person? Every suspension of elections I can think of only ended when the person who declared had died, or been forced from power. I’m not denying that there may be counter-examples, but has it happened often? (I’ve been trying to keep out of internal American politics, but I have to say it’s getting very scary being next door to you guys. I shudder to think what’ll happen to us if Bush declares himself Caeser) ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/77 "2004-07-01T13:52:39Z")
:smack: Haven’tr done that in awhile. I posted under my roommate’s name again – the above post is mine, not **matt\_mcl** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/78 "2004-07-01T13:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > OK…so far it’s Reeder, Exgineer, Doors and Silenus on barricade duty. Anybody else? We’ve got plenty of guns to go around… I’m in, if I get a souvenir Che Guevara T-shirt. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/79 "2004-07-01T14:06:18Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Well, that isn’t true, is it? It’s a hypothetical prediction, so it’s neither true nor false _Brutus Truthometer_: -1 > [@](#): > > Sign-waving protesters may be many things, but are certainly not thugs. Look at the picture [here](http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/24/recount.wrap/) and tell me that’s not physical intimidation. The video footage showed the GOP thugs beating on the windows of the room where the votes were being counted and trying to snatch the voting boxes from the hands of the vote counters. _Brutus Truthometer_: -2 > [@](#): > > Heh, and he has the yarbles to claim its the Republicans doing the ‘demonization’? From [here](http://users.rcn.com/skutsch/anticoulter/quotes.html): "A late January 2002 quote from Coulter’s address to CPAC (the Conservative Political Action Conference). ``` "When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that John Walker is not getting the death penalty. We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors." ``` Her words were applauded by National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice, Secretary of Health and Human Services Tommy Thompson, and Lynne Cheney (wife of Vice President Cheney), all of whom were in attendance. " I can come up with lots more in a similar vein from Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Mona Charen, and the other mouthpieces for the GOP. And let us not forget John Ashcroft’s rebuke:"“To those who scare peace-loving peoples with phantoms of lost liberties, your actions only aid terrorists and provide ammunition to America"s enemies.” _Brutus Truthometer_: -3 > [@](#): > > Since more [than half](http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm) of dems also support a proposed amendment, gonna have to chalk this up as meaningless. And who proposed it? The GOP. _Brutus Truthometer_: -4 > [@](#): > > Heh, notice the qualifiers. ‘Routine’, eh? For that Moore-eque manuever, gonna have to dock him points. After all, [not all Dems are so fucking short-sighted](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24867-2004Jun8.html) when it comes to dealing with terrorists. Ashcroft [lied](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23373-2004Jun7.html). _Brutus Truthometer_: -5 > [@](#): > > Not ‘crimainal suspects’. ‘Enemy combatants’, a designation the USC supports. Not [necessarily.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13350-2004Jun28.html) _Brutus Truthometer_: -6 > [@](#): > > Gotta dock the idiot for selective quoting. The full quote is: > > > [@](#): > > > > I told all four that there were going to be some times where we don’t agree with each other. But that’s OK. If this were a dictatorship, it’d be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictato Which alters the meaning not at all. _Gobear Truthometer_: -7 Not looking good for **Brutus**. **Brutus** you’re a follower who’s incapable of thinking any thought that was not handed to you from a GOP talking points memo. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956/80 "2004-07-01T14:27:46Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Those of us who honestly feel the 2000 election was stolen can hardly be surprised by attempts to feel out the feasibility of holding onto the office by similar means in 2004. Those of you who feel that way are a numerical minority who have chosen to see only evil and conspiracy on one side and only nobility and martyrdom on the other. The U.S. Supreme Court is evil. The Florida Supreme Court is wise. Republican Secretary of State Katherine Harris is evil. Democratic Attorney General Robert Butterworth is wise. The current discussion about plans to postpone a national election are just that. The pentagon has plans to invade Canada too, but we aren’t going to use them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-democracy-was-fun/252956.md?page=5)