# Were Adam and Eve Jewish? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303 "2009-07-08T04:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/61 "2009-07-11T05:51:07Z")
Maybe. Kush/Kish was also a Sumerian city near Babylon, though, so it could refer to that. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/62 "2009-07-11T14:55:56Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > An interesting question. They were certainly worshippers of the diety that Jews worship… I am surprised at this answer from Chaim, because I thought that, Biblically speaking, this question has a Straight Dope answer. Jews are descendants of Judah, son of Israel, just as Levites are descendants of Levi and the Reubanites are descendants or Reuben. Jews are/were one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, and all the other patriarchs are neither Israelite nor Jews. As for Eden, I understood that to refer to the nation now known as Iraq. The Garden, East in Eden, is more…metaphorical. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/63 "2009-07-11T16:34:27Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Yes, but **all ancestry** leads from them in a biblical sense. Were they not Yahweh’s sole creation and lineage? If Adam and Eve were the only people that God created, why did Cain tell God that whoever would find him would kill him if he were banished after his brother’s death? According to Genesis, Adam and Eve didn’t even have a third child until after Abel was dead. Clearly he’s worried about people other than his parents, or he wouldn’t have said “whoever” instead of saying them specifically. > [@](#): > > 13But Cain answered the Lord, “My punishment is too great to bear! 14Since You are banishing me today from the soil, and I must hide myself from Your presence and become a restless wanderer on the earth, whoever finds me will kill me.” > 15Then the Lord replied to him, “In that case, whoever kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” And he placed a mark on Cain so that whoever found him would not kill him. 16 Then Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/64 "2009-07-11T20:33:43Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > If Adam and Eve were the only people that God created, why did Cain tell God that whoever would find him would kill him if he were banished after his brother’s death? According to Genesis, Adam and Eve didn’t even have a third child until after Abel was dead. Clearly he’s worried about people other than his parents, or he wouldn’t have said “whoever” instead of saying them specifically. Hypothetically, they’d be other children of Adam and Eve whose names aren’t mentioned in the bible and their descendants. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/65 "2009-07-12T04:47:54Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > If Adam was a Jew, who performed the Briss? No, You have it all wrong. Since Adam was a Jew, He probably performed the first Briss… Likely on his Sons. ---
**Author:** ![Aelita\_Daystar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@Aelita\_Daystar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aelita_Daystar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/66 "2009-07-12T05:10:13Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > No, You have it all wrong. Since Adam was a Jew, He probably performed the first Briss… Likely on his Sons. Why would that be? The Bible would have us believe that circumcision originated as as a sign of the covenant between Yahweh and Abraham. According to the history in the bible, there would have been no such tradition for Adam, so even if he did circumcise his sons, I don’t think it could be called a Briss. If there was no Covenant yet, there would only be three possible reasons for doing so that I can think of: 1. He was doing it for hygienic reasons as per the explanation for Egyptian circumcision given by Herodotus. 2. He was copying some other Semitic culture (like the Canaanites) and the circumcision was a faux sacrifice to appease one of their gods. I don’t think that would be a popular explanation among the religious… 3. He was messed up in the head and decided to cut up his kids private parts for no reason. I don’t think that there is anything that indicates he circumcised anybody though. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/67 "2009-07-12T05:24:01Z")
Another possibility… 1. Hi, Opal… Circumsicion is also a very popular African rite of passage amongst certain tribes, both Male and Female. I’m sure it predates any semitic culture. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/68 "2009-07-12T05:26:40Z")
Adam might have belong to a fetishest or scarring tribe. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/69 "2009-07-12T05:50:16Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > No, You have it all wrong. Since Adam was a Jew, He probably performed the first Briss… Likely on his Sons. Adam wasn’t a Jew. Circumcision doesn’t show up in the bible until the story of Abraham, where Abraham is commanded to circumcise himself, his male slaves, and his children in commemoration of his covenant with God, and that in the future, all of Abraham’s male descendants should be circumcised to remember the covenant. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/70 "2009-07-12T05:57:04Z")
Yea, but who do you think he got that idea from? Out of pure ingenuity? Hmmm. let’s cut off the tip off our dicks. There was an ancient reason. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/71 "2009-07-12T06:23:31Z")
In the bible, he got the idea from God. In actuality, there in all likelihood was no Adam and no Abraham, and male circumcision was a custom common in the Middle East and North Africa. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/72 "2009-07-12T06:58:37Z")
Well, usually these “New Deific Covenants” are restorative of the “Old Ways”. They are usually implemented because of superstition and a perceived breaking of the last covenant, or a moral redrft… The last Law in place. It’s going back to the tribal Father and Mother’s mystics and rituals. I gues it’s the definition of conservatism, to be honest ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/73 "2009-07-12T12:58:24Z")
In Genesis, circumcision is considered something new, established between God and Abraham: > [@](#): > > When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless. > > I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers. > > Abram fell face down, and God said to him, > > As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. > > No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. > > I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. > > I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. > > The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God. > > Then God said to Abraham, As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. > > This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. > > You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. > > For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner— those who are not your offspring. > > Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. > > Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant. > > God also said to Abraham, As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. > > I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/74 "2009-07-13T19:07:48Z")
Reno Nevada: > [@](#): > > Jews are descendants of Judah, son of Israel, just as Levites are descendants of Levi and the Reubanites are descendants or Reuben. Jews are/were one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, and all the other patriarchs are neither Israelite nor Jews. First of all, as I have said earlier in this thread, the word Jew, while derived from the tribal name Judah, was not coined to refer only to descendants of Judah. It comes from Judea, the Roman name for the province where the Israelites - from any of the remains of the original tribes existed - were the predominant ethnic group. Judea in turn comes from the Kingdom of Judah, so called because the rulers of said kingdom were of the tribe of Judah, but the inhabitants were not exclusively so. Secondly, the reason I was hesitant to answer no is because a covenant is usually an exclusive arrangement, and by defining the Jews as parties to the covenant, that covenant set them aside as something special. However, since Adam and Eve were the only people in existence at the time they were created, lack of a special covenant would not have excluded anyone else, so perhaps they could have been considered in the “Jewish” category (despite pre-dating Abraham, Israel and Judah). In the end, though, I concluded that the Torah is a way of life that Adam and Eve never did have access to, and therefore, they cannot be considered Jewish in any sense. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/75 "2009-07-14T05:44:53Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > In the end, though, I concluded that the Torah is a way of life that Adam and Eve never did have access to, and therefore, they cannot be considered Jewish in any sense. How would you conclude that? Many details are missing from Adam and Eve’s story. The story seems to indicate that the people of God were thrown from the garden, but then God said, Ok, Let’s try this again. Reset. Perhaps God “told” Avram that that was his mystical covenant between Adam and Eve and their Sons. Maybe the mark and punishment that Cain endured was the scar of circumcision? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/76 "2009-07-14T05:46:08Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > All of _humanity_ is descended from Adam and Eve, by the Genesis account. By your reckoning, does that make us all Jews? Plus, we are all descendants of Noah (hence the Noahide commandments, which apply to all). The Jews are the descendants of _Abraham_ who entered into the Covenant at Sinai. There’s an afwul lot of us who don’t meet those criteria of Jewishness, and we are not considered Jews, either by ourselves or by those who are Jewish. I’m amazed it took 7 posts for this. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/77 "2009-07-14T06:03:59Z")
Actually the whole Adam and Eve story sounds like a whole mystic rite that is told to initiates. It really does sound like a story that is told during the rite of passage from Child to Man. Sounds like the chant of a circumcision ceremony. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/78 "2009-07-14T06:29:31Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Actually the whole Adam and Eve story sounds like a whole mystic rite that is told to initiates. It really does sound like a story that is told during the rite of passage from Child to Man. Sounds like the chant of a circumcision ceremony. Yes, Genesis is a mystical text not to be taken literally, just like Revelations. I read it as the story of the loss of innocence as humanity came to know suffering. Birth really. In the womb everything is provided for you, it’s all good, everything is comfy and nice, and then suddenly bam you are shot out into the cold cruel world naked and unsure. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/79 "2009-07-14T06:55:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, Genesis is a mystical text not to be taken literally, just like Revelations. I read it as the story of the loss of innocence as humanity came to know suffering. Birth really. In the womb everything is provided for you, it’s all good, everything is comfy and nice, and then suddenly bam you are shot out into the cold cruel world naked and unsure. Why assume that it wasn’t taken literally by the authors of Genesis? Most people don’t take it literally now, because we know a lot of things about the creation of the earth and the evolution of man that people back then didn’t. But the ancient Jews were undoubtedly curious about things like how the world was created, why women suffer pain in childbirth while most animals don’t seem to, why people have to work to grow food, and so on. It explains human suffering, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t also seen as a history of how the world came to be created. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303/80 "2009-07-14T06:58:16Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Why assume that it wasn’t taken literally by the authors of Genesis? Most people don’t take it literally now, because we know a lot of things about the creation of the earth and the evolution of man that people back then didn’t. But the ancient Jews were undoubtedly curious about things like how the world was created, why women suffer pain in childbirth while most animals don’t seem to, why people have to work to grow food, and so on. It explains human suffering, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t also seen as a history of how the world came to be created. Because a day is how long it takes for the Sun to rise, set and Rise again, and the Earth was not created on the first day. That’s how I know they didn’t take it literally. The only people that have ever taken Genesis literally are total morons. It’s an allegory, it was always an allegory. By virtue of the fact that it was written down we know that it was written by priests for other priests, IE, by the intellectual elite for the intellectual elite never meant to be read by the lay people. As we know from Greek Mythology the myths were allegories meant to explain complex concepts to idiots and children, the real educated class has left us actual writings telling us what they really believed. That Genesis is as incomplete as it is should be the first clue that it wasn’t meant to be taken literally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-adam-and-eve-jewish/502303.md?page=5)