# We're all pacifists, aren't we? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864 "2007-11-10T03:04:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![9thFloor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/b487fb/32.png) [@9thFloor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/9thFloor)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/101 "2007-11-13T09:27:55Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] I’m just waiting for someone to present an innocuous descriptor whose acrostic spells out MOTHERFUCKER. Minor Obstructionist That Hears Every… something. [/QUOTE] Minor Obstructionist That Has Every Ridiculous “Fact” Unsubstantiated Continues Killing Everyone Regardless ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/102 "2007-11-13T11:57:04Z")
[QUOTE=SSG Schwartz] Without war, there would be no combat stress casualties. Without combat stress casualties there would be no combat stress control units. Without combat stress control units, I wouldn’t have a job. (At least for the time being.) I don’t like the idea of people getting killed in a war, but I do like my job. Parse that as you may, but if there was world peace, I would be flipping burgers again. SSG Schwartz [/QUOTE] I’ve also been mortared, rocketed, RPG’d, shot at and been through a few IED strikes. I disagree 100% with SSG Schwartz. War is a gross and disgusting thing and having been there (a year in Iraq and a year in Afghanistan) I believe most of those serving downrange would ALSO disagree with his comments. I think the adage ‘pray for peace; train for war’ comes into play here. Oliveritaly ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/103 "2007-11-13T12:13:49Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] .No, I had other options available to me besides join the Army or flip burgers. [/QUOTE] Oh, ME-ow. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/104 "2007-11-13T16:04:52Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire] Oh, ME-ow. [/QUOTE] Don’t meow me sister. That was a legitimate burn. > [@Shelf stable at room temperatu](#): > > I’m guessing the reverse. That most people would be happy to have a war they thought we could win. Each person might have a different target in mind, but I’d guess if you put a list of countries in a survey, that each person would be happy if we invaded at least one of them. > Not for aggrandizement, necessarily, but to “solve” a problem. Cuba, Lybia, Syria, North Korea, Sudan, Chinese Tibet, plus the other hot spots like Northern Ireland and Vensuala. If we invaded and were in charge, boy, things would be better, you betcha. That’s why war is so suductive to a great power. Why negotiate or compromise when you can just use force? Of course, by an extension of SSG Schwartz’s logic, we should go to war just so employees of General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and Boeing can keep their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/105 "2007-11-13T16:53:39Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Cite? Hasn’t happened since Vietnam. [/QUOTE] How about Iraq? Or Afghanistan? I imagine he means at least one mortar per day, but not necessarily more than one. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/106 "2007-11-13T17:01:43Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] How about Iraq? Or Afghanistan? I imagine he means at least one mortar per day, but not necessarily more than one. [/QUOTE] Well, the mortar merrier. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/107 "2007-11-13T17:43:15Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] Of course, by an extension of SSG Schwartz’s logic, we should go to war just so employees of General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and Boeing can keep their jobs. [/QUOTE] You mean that’s not why you currently do it? Well, that and to keep their shareholders in dividends. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/108 "2007-11-13T19:19:19Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] How about Iraq? Or Afghanistan? I imagine he means at least one mortar per day, but not necessarily more than one. [/QUOTE] OK. Cite where a FOB anywhere has been shelled by at least one mortar per day for thirty days straight, since Vietnam. Which is what he claimed: > [@ssgschwartz](#): > > Yes, I was exposed to indirect and direct fire. I served on a Forward Operating Base that was mortared for 30 days straight. ---
**Author:** ![9thFloor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/b487fb/32.png) [@9thFloor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/9thFloor)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/109 "2007-11-13T19:37:28Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] Don’t meow me sister. That was a legitimate burn. That’s why war is so suductive to a great power. Why negotiate or compromise when you can just use force? Of course, by an extension of SSG Schwartz’s logic, we should go to war just so employees of General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and Boeing can keep their jobs. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure we have. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/110 "2007-11-13T20:22:13Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] OK. Cite where a FOB anywhere has been shelled by at least one mortar per day for thirty days straight, since Vietnam. Which is what he claimed: [/QUOTE] In one programme, the British TV series Commando said of one base that they were attacked pretty much every day. The officer also said that it was simply the Taliban’s way of letting them know they were there. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/111 "2007-11-13T21:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] In one programme, the British TV series Commando said of one base that they were attacked pretty much every day. The officer also said that it was simply the Taliban’s way of letting them know they were there. [/QUOTE] Quartz: That is not talking about an American Forward Operations Base that was shelled for thirty straight days. Which is specific. The cite I requested should contain three things: 1-American Forward Operations Base (not any old base) 2-Subjected to 30 straight days of mortar shelling(not just attacked “pretty much” everyday) 3-happened after the Vietnam War. This is one former soldier who did a tour in Iraq calling BS on a current soldier. I could be wrong, thats why I asked for a cite. But you do not need to tell me what you saw on some TV show. I have been there. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864/112 "2007-11-13T23:39:21Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] But you do not need to tell me what you saw on some TV show. I have been there. [/QUOTE] And I’ve worked with those who were there. I was giving a cite that you might find independent. Of course, it’s really up to the claimer to provide the cite, but I thought the readership might find it of interest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-all-pacifists-arent-we/425864.md?page=5)