were all the apostles really sitting on the same side of the table at the lastsupper

[Skammer]

@FriendRob

There are few details in the Gospel accounts and those few are contradictory and historically inaccurate.

For instance, in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus tells the disciples that the bread and wine are his body and blood. In John, he says no such thing.

In Jewish custom everyone would have had their own cup to drink out of, but in the Gospel accounts they all share the same cup, in Greek style.

The Last Supper never happened. The gospel writers made it up according to their own meal practices. Just like Leonardo did in his painting.

I won’t deny that there are apparent contradictions and historical inaccuarcies in the bible, but you haven’t pointed out any in this story. Your conclusion that it “never happened” seems overconfident given the lack of evidence either way, outside the four gospel accounts that say it did.

[DrDeth]

@FriendRob

There are few details in the Gospel accounts and those few are contradictory and historically inaccurate.

For instance, in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus tells the disciples that the bread and wine are his body and blood. In John, he says no such thing.

The Last Supper never happened. The gospel writers made it up according to their own meal practices. Just like Leonardo did in his painting.

So- a couple of contradictions and suddenly a group of very religious Jews aren’t having their Passover supper? :dubious: :rolleyes:

Likely they reclined around a U shape of tables. Since the Greek way of life was very popular around that time, possibly they sat. Having them all on one side was an artists convesntion.

[sqweels]

Pope: I want a “Last Supper” with 12 disciples and one Christ!

Michealangelo: ONE??!!

Pope: Yes, one! Now will you please tell me why in God’s name you have painted this with three Christs in it?

Michealangelo: It works, mate!

Pope: It does not work!

Michealangelo: It does too, it looks great. The fat one balances the two skinny ones!

[Kat]

Well, it was a Passover supper, right? So aren’t those supposed to be eaten standing up, with their shoes on, wearing travelling clothes?

[JRDelirious]

@Skopo

You have to keep in mind that many of the Last Supper images from the Renaissance–including Leonardo’s fresco at Santa Maria della Grazie–were painted for refectory walls. The refectory is the room in a monastery where the monks have dinner, at tables facing across from one another.

Right – it would have simulated something like what we recognize as the head/presidential table at a banquet, where everyone is indeed on one side of the table, facing the rest of the room.
And as HeyHomie said, the visuals would have been those for c. 1500 Italy, because otherwise the people who saw it would have a hard time getting it.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Skammer

I won’t deny that there are apparent contradictions and historical inaccuarcies in the bible, but you haven’t pointed out any in this story. Your conclusion that it “never happened” seems overconfident given the lack of evidence either way, outside the four gospel accounts that say it did.

It “never happened” in the sense the gospel narratives are literary liturgical devices not journaistic descriptions of a historical event. The eucharistic elements in partcular are distinctly Hellenistic rather than Jewish, both ritually and lingustically .

That is not to say that there wasn’t a “last supper” purely in the sense of a final shared meal between Jesus and the apostles- quite possibly even a Passover sedar- but the actual details of that event are not recorded in the gospels. What is in the gospels is pious fiction, not history.

Oh…and they would have reclined.

[Askance]

I recall a cartoon from Punch, I think, which had the classic last supper scene, except with a whole bunch of medieval-looking painters in front of the table.

One of the apostles is saying to another: “if I’d known the papparazzi would be here I wouldn’t have come”.