# Were/are there such things as real walking papers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 21, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105 "2005-11-21T17:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/1 "2005-11-21T17:50:43Z")
Every time I’ve ever heard the term “walking papers” used, it is as a metaphor, usually for a relationship break-up or a job firing: “So-and-so was handed their walking papers after they showed up drunk at the factory.” But were there ever such things as real walking papers? I know (because I watch lots of old movies [smilie]) that various fascist states required “papers” for doing things like leaving the country. But _walking_ papers? Besides, the meanings are slightly different. Fascist state papers _allowed_ you to do something you wanted to do; walking papers _commanded_ you to do something you did not want to do (leave). ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/2 "2005-11-21T17:55:18Z")
I’m pretty sure the phrase refers to the documents included in firing, i.e. pink-slip. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/3 "2005-11-21T18:04:34Z")
I have never heard of “walking papers”, but have “marching orders” are in common usage. I always assumed this was military in origin. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/4 "2005-11-21T18:14:33Z")
The phrase “walking papers” is of U.S. origin; the first known usage was in 1825. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/5 "2005-11-21T19:15:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The phrase “walking papers” is of U.S. origin; the first known usage was in 1825. This suggests the possibility that it may have come from a paper that allowed slaves or indentured workers to move around the countryside when required. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/6 "2005-11-21T19:41:57Z")
I had one job were I saw the documents in the process of employee termination. Thankfully I was not terminated… but I know that they do in fact exist. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/7 "2005-11-21T23:34:01Z")
**Meeko** and **groman** , I think you are missing the point of my question. Yes, I know there are such things as real termination papers. And, yes, I know they are colloquially called “walking papers.” But that is a metaphor. The question I am asking is whether the metaphorical reference – walking papers – ever existed for real. To illustrate: Some metaphors refer to real-life things: “I went to the party with the old ball and chain (a spouse).” There _are_ real balls and chains. Others refer to made-up things: “After I snapped the picture of Donald Trump in a naked three-way with Siegfried & Roy, I went to the PhotoMart to develop my little ticket to Easy Street.” There \*are not \* real train tickets to a place called Easy Street. Are “walking papers” like the first example or the second? ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/8 "2005-11-21T23:39:53Z")
> [@stuyguy](#): > > Are “walking papers” like the first example or the second? I don’t have a cite, but I believe like the first. i.e. the metaphor is referring to termination papers. it’s about being fired. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/9 "2005-11-22T00:10:50Z")
> [@](#): > > There are not real train tickets to a place called Easy Street. Are you sure about this? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/10 "2005-11-22T00:34:05Z")
Give that the term was in use by 1825, I doubt it referred to the paperwork in a job termination. That’s just not how people were fired back then. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/11 "2005-11-22T02:02:46Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Give that the term was in use by 1825, I doubt it referred to the paperwork in a job termination. That’s just not how people were fired back then. I’ll side with **Walloon** here. The 1825 cite and an 1824 cite which I just found both refer to a woman’s dismissal of a boyfriend by giving him his walking papers. This indicates that if it **were** based on some literal papers given to job holders, then the real event must have occured some good time before this date. To prove otherwise, all one has to do is find the term in use in a non-metaphorical sense that early or earlier. Can’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/12 "2005-11-22T06:42:47Z")
Please. Walking papers were an early (and much slower) version of rolling papers. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-are-there-such-things-as-real-walking-papers/332105/13 "2005-11-22T13:02:09Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > I’ll side with **Walloon** here. > > The 1825 cite and an 1824 cite which I just found both refer to a woman’s dismissal of a boyfriend by giving him his walking papers. This indicates that if it **were** based on some literal papers given to job holders, then the real event must have occured some good time before this date. > > To prove otherwise, all one has to do is find the term in use in a non-metaphorical sense that early or earlier. Can’t do it. Well Sam, I’ll guess that it has something to do with one’s release from indentured servitude, “Walking Papers” being easier to pronounce than “Writ of Manumission,” or whatever indentured servants (as opposed to slaves) received. Even today, we’re fired by being told “I’ll have to let you go,” to which we have to bite our tounges so as not to reply “Why? I wasn’t trying to get away!”