# Were Christians really thrown to the lions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489 "2015-09-25T15:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/1 "2015-09-25T15:37:29Z")
In the early days of Christianity, did the Romans actually have public events where they threw Christians to the lions? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/2 "2015-09-25T15:51:12Z")
Cecil on the subject: [Were Christians really thrown to lions?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2841/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/3 "2015-09-25T16:12:42Z")
So probably, but no confirmation? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/4 "2015-09-25T16:18:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So probably, but no confirmation? I would say very likely, but that a specific contemporary statement is lacking. We know that 1) Christians were executed by being thrown to animals, and 2) lions were one of the animals used in executions. As Cecil says, if Christians were not thrown to lions it must have been an oversight. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/5 "2015-09-25T18:32:51Z")
Even if it never really happened it makes a good story and demonstrates martyrdom for Christians. So for PR reasons the story lives on whether it really happened or not. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/6 "2015-09-25T18:38:17Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Even if it never really happened it makes a good story and demonstrates martyrdom for Christians. So for PR reasons the story lives on whether it really happened or not. Its undeniable that Christians were persecuted during the Roman empire. Does it really matter how they were killed? > **[Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_policies_in_the_Roman_Empire)** > > Christians were persecuted throughout the Roman Empire, beginning in the 1st century AD and ending in the 4th century. Originally a polytheistic empire in the traditions of Roman paganism and the Hellenistic religion, as Christianity spread through the empire, it came into ideological conflict with the imperial cult of ancient Rome. Pagan practices such as making sacrifices to the deified emperors or other gods were abhorrent to Christians as their beliefs prohibited idolatry. The state and oth... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/7 "2015-09-25T19:08:35Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Its undeniable that Christians were persecuted during the Roman empire. Does it really matter how they were killed? > > [Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_policies_in_the_Roman_Empire) since I asked a specific question then, yes, an accurate answer probably matters. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/8 "2015-09-25T19:12:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > since I asked a specific question then, yes, an accurate answer probably matters. Since there are no photos or video; and since recorded incidents will always be challenged; how can we possibly know? It will always be IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/9 "2015-09-25T19:28:55Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Since there are no photos or video; and since recorded incidents will always be challenged; how can we possibly know? It will always be IMHO. You _just_ said that it was undeniable that Christians were persecuted during the Roman empire, but by your own standards that can only be your own opinion, correct? I’m just asking if there are any reliable historical records that show that Romans threw Christians to the lions in a public arena. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/10 "2015-09-25T19:35:59Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Since there are no photos or video; and since recorded incidents will always be challenged; how can we possibly know? It will always be IMHO. **Moderating** If you don’t have any actual information on the subject, there really isn’t any reason for you to be posting in this thread. As has been pointed out, you could say this about any historical topic. Colibri General Questions Moderating ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/11 "2015-09-25T19:46:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderating** > > If you don’t have any actual information on the subject, there really isn’t any reason for you to be posting in this thread. As has been pointed out, you could say this about any historical topic. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderating Since this is a forum that requires factual answers, can we not say that there isnt a factual answer because there is no direct evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/12 "2015-09-25T20:14:59Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Since this is a forum that requires factual answers, can we not say that there isnt a factual answer because there is no direct evidence? Dispositive evidence need not be “direct.” Examples are too numerous to discuss in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/13 "2015-09-25T20:22:25Z")
I think the Mythbusters would classify this one as an extremely strong “plausible”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/14 "2015-09-25T20:26:00Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > I think the Mythbusters would classify this one as an extremely strong “plausible”. But would you _really_ want them to test out the theory? They do tend to go a bit overboard. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/15 "2015-09-25T20:30:56Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Since this is a forum that requires factual answers, can we not say that there isnt a factual answer because there is no direct evidence? Do you plan to post that in every thread about historical events? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/16 "2015-09-25T23:19:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In the early days of Christianity, did the Romans actually have public events where they threw Christians to the lions? The answer to that would be a statistical yes on something close to 100%. It didn’t take much to find yourself in court and anything less than blind loyalty to the Emperor is a ticket to the wrong side of the Colosseum. It’s virtually certain that some Christians refused to acknowledge the Emperor as divine or participate in any official state religion. [Here is a cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletianic_Persecution) regarding the Diocletianic Persecution. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/17 "2015-09-26T01:37:59Z")
The only reference to Christians being thrown to lions that we definitely have comes from the Christian theologian Tertullian, who wrote several defenses of Christianity. In his Apology (written as a defense of Christianity to a hypothetical Roman official), he says at one point, talking about how Christians are scapegoated for everything that goes wrong in the Empire (As Cecil mentions in his column): > [@](#): > > FOR the name of ‘faction’ ought to be applied quite otherwise to those who unite in hatred of the good and honest, who join in outcries against the life of innocent men, alleging as an excuse, forsooth, in defense of their hatred this additional falsehood, that they believe the Christians are the cause of every public disaster and every popular calamity. If the Tiber rises up to the Avails, if the Nile does not overflow the fields, if the heaven stands still, if the earth moves, if famine or pestilence arises, the first cry is, ‘The Christians to the lion!’ So many to one? And then later, there’s this, which in the translation I found says, > [@](#): > > For quite recently, when you condemned a Christian woman **to the beastly lust of men instead of to an actual wild beast** , you confessed that a stain upon chastity is accounted more heinous with us than any torture or any death. but really he’s making a pun in Latin, and the translator is trying to preserve the pun rather than the straight translation, because what what the bolded part actually is in the text is: “ad lenonem potius quam ad leonem” which translates to “to a pimp, rather than a lion”. At other points, he talks about condemning prisoners to beasts generally, as for instance: > [@](#): > > It is with your own people that your prisons heave; it is with your own people that the mines perpetually sigh; it is on your own people that the beasts are continually fattened; it is from your own people that the givers of gladiatorial shows provide their flocks of criminals. No Christian is amongst them, unless it be simply because he is one; or if it be for any other reason, he is no longer a Christian I think Tertullian was the only writer to mention lions specifically, but there are a bunch of other sources that talk about Christians suffering execution by wild beasts. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/18 "2015-09-26T02:41:24Z")
I don’t think they were actually “thrown” to lions, they were forced into the arena and lions released. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/19 "2015-09-26T03:58:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Do you plan to post that in every thread about historical events? I think that he/she plans to post it in every thread. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489/20 "2015-09-26T04:51:20Z")
I have always wondered about the “lions”. Unlike Tigers or some Bears, Lions have lived humans for hundreds of thousands of years and while they will attack humans, they are generally wary of them. Especially ones in captivity. Seems to me to be a poor method of execution. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-christians-really-thrown-to-the-lions/732489.md?page=2)