Were Christians really thrown to the lions?

If so, he won’t continue it for long.

Cite? Many zookeepers and some zoo visitors have been killed by captive lions. I have no doubt that a hungry lion would kill someone in an arena very readily.

Well, once a lion gets hungry enough, or if it’s been tormented and gets angry, then it gets murderous. Prisoners, and not just Christians, would be chained up and basically left to the nonexistent mercy of the beasts.

Condemned prisoners were killed in a number of hair-raising methods, of course. Prisoners were sacrificed to a variety of unpleasant animals. Lions were apparently used, although it should be noted that the reference might not be entirely limited to what we think of as the modern lion. They may have used the last European lions* and probably included other hunting cats in the mix without differentiating.

However, they didn’t use predators exclusively - maybe not even the majority of cases. They could use bulls, or omnivores like bears as well, goading them into massacring helpless civilians. Not sure about boars, then.

*But possibly before they started killing Christians. We only have a general timeframe.

Yay, I get to post my my-cousin-the-zookeeper story (again, I’m pretty sure)!

Cousin was z.k. in NYC. Entered cage during menstruation period (hers, not the lion’s), was attacked, admonished by z.k. boss not to enter cage during menstruation period (hers, not the lion’s), has kick-ass long scar perhaps to be shown, when asked nicely, at bar mitzvahs, weddings, and other events when encountered.

Since around a quarter were killed off, mostly by their guards or whomever else sold the office, a conditional loyalty was as much as they could hope for.
[ 35 murdered ( at least ) from 138 western emperors in just over 400 years: in contrast a monarchy would have had around 20 - 25 Kings over 400 years. ]
Generally the Romans didn’t care who you worshipped or what you believed so long as you kept giving them money [ taxes ]; like nearly every other state they did care about having the simple faith of the common people disturbed. For some reason, possibly self-righteousness, they found christians irritating and used them as scapegoats under Nero. Christians would have been mostly jewish at this point. Which is ironic since the jews invented the concept of ( literal ) scapegoats.

I can’t see any reason to doubt they were persecuted — and possibly joyfully so, for as Cabell quoted, The Blood of the Martyrs is the Seed of the Church. From Tertullian above.
The Romans used every animal they could find in their shows, including polar bears. To be killed by any one of these unfortunate and justly irritated creatures would not be gentle into that good-night. Particularly as they strapped one to a wooden structure first, to stop one from roaming.

Why the Christians ended up on the Roman shit list, I have never understood. Druids, tended to have human sacrifices, and Roman soldiers were often the offerings, so that is understandable. Some cults might be linked to rebellion, and that had to be handled.

Otherwise… Christians did none of those.

Christians did believe in a “king” who many believed would return during their lifetimes. I can see how that would seem subversive.

Christians refused to bow to the state religion. The whole bow to no other god than me. The Romans didnt care what you believed in as long as you bowed to them.

Edited to add: They were also connected to Judaism which Rome did everything they could to destroy. Judaism also doesnt allow worship of other gods.

There were persecutions of Christians under Nero and small scale persecutions afterwards in local areas, but the first major empire wide persecution of Christians was under Decius. Decius had become Emperor in 249, in the middle of the Crisis of the Third Century, after successfully overthrowing and killing Phillip the Arab.

The Empire had been in turmoil for a while, and Decius seems to have believed that one of the reasons for that had been the decline in Roman morality. So Decius decided to reform it. He tried (unsuccessfully) to restore the office of censor, but also in 250, he passed an edict requiring everyone (except Jews, who were exempted for religious reasons) to offer public sacrifices for the safety of the Empire and on behalf of the Emperor, with the death penalty for those who wouldn’t comply. Many Christians refused to sacrifice, due to moral opposition to the edict, and were executed.

Is there a Christian Martyr who is associated with such a death? Eg, St. Laurence is often portrayed iconologically with a grate, upon which he was burned to death.

Religion and politics were closely linked in the Roman Empire. This was the case since the Republic, where politicians were the top religious magistrates (for instance, Julius Caesar was Pontifex Maximus), and even more so when the Emperors were deified after death, and got their own cults.

Refusing to sacrifice to the gods of the Roman state religion, then, was a bit like refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance. If times are paranoid enough, that’s the kind of thing that might get you put on some list. And at certain times, the Romans were no strangers to Stalinist-level paranoia when it came to potential rebels and subversive groups.

There is also the matter of Christians making convenient scapegoats when there was trouble, as was the case for Nero. It seems clear that for a lot of Romans, Christians were often seen as pretty weird, and by extension, scary. The Roman Empire was certainly multicultural and polytheistic, but it doesn’t mean that it was tolerant (paradoxical as that might sound). The Romans weren’t exactly known for being PC. This wasn’t helped by the fact that early Christians were often poor people and non-citizens - in other words, people that good and proper Romans didn’t really like or trust all that much to begin with.

Not really the case. Judaism was a legal religion in the Empire, and mostly got a pass on the monotheism issue on account of being ancient. Judea was at first run by the Romans by way of Jewish client kings, such as Herod (at least in part, it gets complicated).

Of course, on the other hand, there is the not-so-minor issue of several extremely brutal Roman-Jewish wars, leading to among other things the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, and a Jewish diaspora. But that had as much, or more, to do with politics than religion per se.

Relationship status: It’s complicated. Not sure if the legal status of Judaism changed any as a result of the wars.

Newfangled cults did not get a pass in the same way on the matter of worship of other gods. An issue under debate is whether the Roman authorities (and Christians themselves) saw Christianity as a sect of Judaism, or as its own thing. At least after a while, it seems to be the latter. After 96 AD Christians were not subject to payment of the Jewish tax, which had been imposed on practicing Jews after the First Roman-Jewish War (which kind of sounds like a good thing, but probably wasn’t, as it’s part and parcel of Christianity being on its own when it comes to the legalities). Christianity was not recognized as a legal religion until the Edict of Milan (313 AD), AFAIK.

Even so, though, persecution of Christians certainly wasn’t something that went on all the time, and even when it did go on, your chances of becoming cat food depended on where in the Empire you were. The big events to know about are Nero’s persecutions, the persecutions by Decius around 250 (as noted by Captain Amazing), and Diocletian’s Great Persecution around 303. Interestingly, the last one of those took place just before Constantine’s vision before the Milvian Bridge, and the beginning of Christianity’s big break.

(BTW, I’m not exactly an expert, so feel free to nitpick any of that.)

Nitpick (and off-topic really), but where did you get this number? By my count, the emperors, west and east, from Augustus (27 BC) to Heraclius (641 AD, my personal preferred cut-off point for the end of Late Antiquity) add up to about 100 men (give or take a few, depending on how you count). Unless you start including two-bit claimants and usurpers.

But, yeah, the average risk of violent death on the job is absolutely atrocious. Of my preferred list of 100, I have just over 50% (!) snuffing it from assassination, execution, suicide, death in battle, or miscellaneous nastiness.

Notable victims of damnatio ad bestias, as per Wiki.
Ignatius of Antioch, and some others, get generic “wild beasts”.

Then there are a couple of bears… Nothing exactly lion-specific, I think. Which is consistent with the thread.

Google, actually. And literally. When googling roman emperors killed by guards it includes a little quizbox: 4 questions with drop-dowm answers
**
How many Emperors did the Roman Empire have ?**
From Augustus (the first emperor) to the division of the Empire into Eastern and Western Empires in A.D. 395 there were 147 Roman Emperors, including 7 ruling the rebel Gallic empire and 2 leading the rebel British empire in defiance of central authority.
I took off the 9 little emperors *
I would have extended the time myself.
As for the number killed — although this is quite subjective in count, I took this from an expert in Quora Bryce Johannes, in a thread How many Roman emperors’ reigns ended when they were murdered?

*More than I’d care to shake a stick at. I put it at around 35, but there are some in there where assassination was only suspected, some are co-emperors and one was killed on the orders of the senate.
Here’s my list:
Caligula: murdered by Praetorian Guard in 41
Claudius: Poisoned by his wife Agrippina in 54
Galba: Murdered in plot orchestrated by Otho in 69
Vitellius: Murdered in 69
Domitian: Assassinated by court officials in 96
Commodus: Assassinated in 192
Pertinax: murdered by Praetorian Guard in 193
Didius Julianus: death ordered by Senate
Caracalla: Assassinated on orders of Marcrinus in 217
Geta (co-emperor): Assassinated on orders of Caracalla in 211
Macrinus: Executed on orders of Elagabalus in 218
Diadumenian (co-emperor): executed on orders of Elagabalus in 218
Elagabalus: murdered by his troops in 222
Alexander Severus: murdered by his own troops in 235
Maximinus Thrax: murdered by Praetorian Guard in 238
Pupienus (joint emperor): murdered by Praetorian Guard in 238
Balbinus (joint emperor): murdered by Praetorian Guard in 238
Gordian III: murdered? in 244
Trebonianus Gallus: murdered by his troops in 253
Aemilian: murdered by his troops in 253
Gallienus (junior co-emperor): murdered by his generals in 268
Aurelian: murdered by the Praetorian Guard in 275
Tacitus: assassinated? in 276
Florian: murdered by his troops in 276
Probus: murdererd by his own soldiers in 282
Carus: probably assassinated by the Praetorian Prefect Aper in 283
Numerian (co-emperor): murdered? in 284
Severus II (junior co-emperor): executed by Maxentius in 307
Constans I (co-emperor): killy by Manentius in 350
Gratian: murdered by rebel army faction in 383
Valentinian II: murdered? in 392
Valentinian III: assassinated in 455
Petronius Maxims: Murdered by Roman mob in 455
Majorian: Murdered by Ricimer in 461
Libius Severus: Assassinated by Ricimer in 465
Anthemius: executed by Ricimer in 472
Leo II: assassinated? in 474
Not including emperors dying in battle.
Not including usurpers.
Not including emperors of the Gallic Empire or Britannic Empire.

Still one only has to compare this with the later Holy Roman Emperors, roughly same place in Europe, but having to contend with the fiendish Church, to see the Romans went through Emperors like nobodies business. And the HRE was more unforgiving to rulers than most mediaeval monarchies.
Also I came across this wiki on The Council of Chalcedon, which was incredibly, ten times duller than the average council. And Average Councils are as dull as ditchwater.

  • Didn’t Alfred Duggan wrote a book called The Little Emperors ?

Those guys could arguably kinda-sorta count, I suppose, depending on your metric. But I still think you’d have to widen the criteria something awful into two-bit claimant and usurper territory to get as high a number as your quoted one, certainly if the cutoff year is 395. I suspect that it might just have been a typo somewhere on the end of your source (Gah! Something is wrong on the Internet!). Not that I particularly want to derail the thread with that discussion.

Well, OK, just a bit:

My count of 100 until 641 (clocking in at 72 in 395, unless I miscounted), with a few either way open to argument (spoilered for obvious space reasons):

Julio-Claudian Dynasty

Augustus
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero

Year of the Four Emperors + Flavian Dynasty

Galba
Otho
Vitellius
Vespasian
Titus
Domitian

Nerva-Antonine Dynasty

Nerva
Trajan
Hadrian
Antoninus Pius
Marcus Aurelius
Lucius Verus
Commodus

Year of the Five Emperors & Severan Dynasty

Pertinax
Didius Julianus
[Yeah, it’s called “Year of the Five Emperors”, but that includes claimants Niger and Albinus]
Septimius Severus
Caracalla
Geta
Macrinus
Elagabalus
Alexander Severus

Year of the Six Emperors & Crisis of the Third Century

Maximinus Thrax
Gordian I
Gordian II
Pupienus
Balbinus
Gordian III
Philip the Arab
Decius
Herennius
Gallus
Hostilian
Volusianus
Aemilian
Valerian
Gallienus
Claudius Gothicus
Quintillus
Aurelian
Tacitus
Florian
Probus
Carus
Numerian
Carinus

Tetrarchy & Constantinian Dynasty

Diocletian
Maximian
Galerius
Constantius Chlorus
Severus II
Maxentius
Constantine the Great
Maximinus Daia
Licinius
Valerius Valens
Martinian
Constantine II
Constantius II
Constans
Vetranio
Julian the Apostate
Jovian

Valentinian Dynasty

Valentinian I
Valens
Gratian
Valentinian II

Theodosian Dynasty [1) Theodosius I and the
Western Empire]

Theodosius I
[395 AD is here]
Honorius
Constantius III
Joannes
Valentinian III

Theodosian Dynasty [2) The Eastern Empire]

Arcadius
Theodosius II
Marcian

The last emperors of the Western Empire

Petronius Maximus
Avitus
Majorian
Libius Severus
Anthemius
Olybrius
Glycerius
Julius Nepos
Romulus Augustulus

[Eastern Empire] Leonid Dynasty

Leo I
Leo II
Zeno
Basiliscus
Anastasius

[Eastern Empire] Justinian Dynasty

Justin I
Justinian the Great
Justin II
Tiberius II Constantine
Maurice

[Eastern Empire] Non-dynastic

Phocas

[Eastern Empire] Heraclian Dynasty

Heraclius

(Heraclian dynasty goes on until 711 AD)

…although because of Gaudere’s Second Law (less famous than the first), I probably made at least one screw-up in there somewhere. :wink:

Or there’s Wiki’s list (slightly divergent), if you want to do a head count from that one.

This is certainly correct and undisputable. As I put it in another thread: At times (the third century, especially), emperor-stabbing became something of a national pastime.

Your murdered emperor list is pretty good, although I might want to take a couple off (and maybe put some names on). For Carus, I certainly prefer the version where he is struck by lightning. :wink:

The larger point that the emperors sometimes maybe were paranoid for a reason is also certainly worth noting.

Yeah, certainly puts that ‘nothing less than blind loyalty’ bit into perspective, doesn’t it ?
Don’t settle in.” was good advice at any inauguration.

Still, I feel they were prolly making some point about the wickedness of autocracy, and the wanton murderousness of absolute power ( although most emperors only sighed after absolute power ). Totally ignoring that under the Republic any free citizen could exercise the right to murder other people.

This was one of their most cherished privileges, and they wouldn’t have it any other way. A Citizen in the Republic could kill anyone in his family; any slave; a foreigner or another Roman in those most libertarian of times. The last because there was no system for punishing murder except through the courts. Someone had to bring a prosecution ( which was not much consolation for the victim ), there was a case where a magistrate was burned to death in his own house by a mob with not the faintest attempt to punish anyone.

I haven’t really come across such disregard for other’s life in any different society back then, not in Greece, nor in the eastern kingdoms. Not that I’ve looked very hard.

Roman history is the stuff of nightmares at times. It’s certainly a time and place where throwing someone to the lions (or other beasts of your choice) doesn’t stand out as all that particularly cruel or unusual, compared to the base level of violence. Heck, it was probably less cruel than, say, crucifixion (and more fun for those watching).

Which isn’t exactly an excuse for doing it, but it does put things into perspective, concerning the “why would they do that” part. I mean, when gladiatorial games is your idea of a good time…

Thank you.

n/m

Interestingly, Ignatius of Antioch, as well as the famous Polycarp (who of course used to be a poster on this board), plus a bunch of others, were killed during the time of the Antonines.

[Exact dates and corresponding reigns seem to be a bit unclear, though, causing me to faceplant a bit detail-wise on my first try at this post. But anyway, back on the soapbox, which I think still holds:]

I mean, you expect it from a Nero, of from someone in the batshit third century. But the Five Cuddly Emperors (um, Five Good Emperors, if you want to get all technical), persecutors? Surely not! But, yes, totally. Or at least it was happening on their watch.

And of course, Diocletian, another awesome emperor, sure liked his persecuting a whole lot (as mentioned upthread). Point at hand: This is one nasty Roman policy that you can’t pawn off on wackiness or incompetence.

(Somewhat similarly, Hadrian, a Cuddly Emperor, gets a justified awful report card from Jewish writers, for attempting something of a cultural genocide in Judea. As part of his project to Hellenize the province, he renamed it Palestine, burned the sacred scrolls, and banned Jews from entering Jerusalem itself. Oh, and there was also a lot of actual murdering. Not that it really worked, though. In his defense, he’d had up to here with Jewish revolts. But, I mean, still.)

(BTW, I shall now set about getting the term “Cuddly Emperor” accepted as a standard scholarly term. BRB.)

The Christians, in addition to being poor and refusing to pledge loyalty the the state gods, were extremely weird. Rumors spread that they were cannibals and practiced incest. (“This is my body you eat”, and they called each other brother and sister) I read a really gorey contemporary story about how the Christians stole a child from their neighbors, wrapped it in a ball of dough, threw the ball of dough around the room until the baby died, and then cooked the whole mess and shared it ritually. I think it’s safe to assume that story was made-up (despite it’s claim of being written by someone who hid and watched) but the early Christians had really crummy PR.