# Were "concrete shoes" a favored technique of mob hitmen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 14, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752 "2008-11-14T19:24:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Arous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Arous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arous)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/1 "2008-11-14T19:24:19Z")
Was this the forerunner of sealing someone in the concrete of a new construction site? That is what I heard had happened to the famous Union Boss played by Jack Nicholson in “Hoffa”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/2 "2008-11-14T19:51:17Z")
[Here’s a link to the column in question.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2824/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen) Based on Cecil’s conclusions I have to say the construction site thing also sounds like a myth, but if anyone knows of a case where this happened… ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/3 "2008-11-14T20:04:33Z")
There are some cases of bodies turning up in concrete, [http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story.aspx?content\_id=a75b357c-2219-4b3f-b59c-817902e76b72](http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=a75b357c-2219-4b3f-b59c-817902e76b72) > **[Body Found in Concrete Identified](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-jan-11-me-corona11-story.html)** > > Boy, 13, was the brother of a Corona 11-year-old who police say was killed by relatives. But most weren’t mob-related. And I found a few examples like this: “Cement Tomb Reveals Remains of Gangster Killed During Fight,” The Kokomo Tribune, February 25, 1930 (fresh concrete in a washtub led investigators to tear up a newly poured concrete floor; they found the body, which had been treated with lime) The most common disposal method that’s well documented was the lime-filled tomb described in this last article. Most of those weren’t part of structures. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/4 "2008-11-14T20:19:29Z")
> [@](#): > > “In my view, they haven’t shown a lot of imagination in disposing of their bodies, usually putting them in the trunk of a car or burying them in some swamp,” said Gregory J. O’Connell, who investigated and prosecuted the leaders of the Luchese, Genovese and Colombo families as a federal prosecutor in Brooklyn from 1985 to 1994. > > Mr. O’Connell, now with De Feis, O’Connell & Rose in Manhattan, also said that an investigation into bid-rigging in the window-installation industry in New York led to the discovery in 1987 of several mob figures entombed under a window factory on Third Avenue in Brooklyn, and to the body of a union official, wrapped in a rug and buried at a construction site in northern New Jersey. [http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/06/nyregion/06mob.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/06/nyregion/06mob.html) > [@](#): > > with the exception of a victim they hastily left half-decapitated in a motel room, the crew took on the added chore of taking the parts themselves to the dump. A few were buried beneath ongoing construction, and one was sealed into a barrel into which concrete was poured, but it appeared that the standard disposal was the local garbage dump. [http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial\_killers/weird/roy\_demeo/3.html](http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/roy_demeo/3.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/5 "2008-11-14T20:30:35Z")
Gladwin Hill, “Liquidation of ‘Murder, Inc.’ Bares Gang Ruthlessness,” Oakland Tribune, October 3, 1940L: > [@](#): > > And, with the investigation still unfolding, an- estimated 100 killing of the last nine years have been traced to the door of “Murder Inc.” Most of them were obscure under world rub-outs, like the cases of Whitey Rudnick; “Bo” Weinberg, who was “frozen” by the feet into concrete and dropped into the river; Walter Sage, who was dropped into a lake with a slot machine and a 30-pound rock (his body came up, nevertheless after a few days, much to the bewilderment of “Murder, Inc.”) and Harry Westone, whose body was dropped into a concrete mixer, to become an integral part of an up-state highway. Hill is probably being a bit aggessive with the facts here. For example, Burton Turkus, one of the Murder, Inc. prosecutors reports the Bo Weinberg story as something “better gangland society, has always maintained, over its teacups.” [http://books.google.com/books?id=VJqvuYpYsi8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=murder+inc&client=firefox-a#PPA132,M1](http://books.google.com/books?id=VJqvuYpYsi8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=murder+inc&client=firefox-a#PPA132,M1) ---
**Author:** ![bill\_henry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bill\_henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bill_henry)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/6 "2008-11-14T21:38:00Z")
Cecil, just a note. Concrete doesn’t “dry”. Its a chemical reaction, and normal concrete becomes stiff in about 4 - 5 hours. It has about 15% of its design strength at this time, 30% after a day, 50% after 3 days, 70 % after a week and 100 % at 28 days. It continues to harden forever (in theory). You would have to use a quick curing concrete to encase someone’s feet in it, and would likely be looking at a few hours. Even then it is very weak concrete, and concrete doesn’t do all that well in saltwater. It makes a lot more sense to wire a cinder block to someone. Thats the method I usually use. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/7 "2008-11-15T05:26:37Z")
How many do you use? I’ve heard of cheapskates who used only one or two and when the body bloated it floated, despite its accoutrements. ---
**Author:** ![david\_42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@david\_42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/david_42)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/8 "2008-11-15T14:23:02Z")
On the practical side, fast-setting concretes used for fence poles and repairs will set in 15 minutes. Repair concretes would be ideal for overcoats, they contain materials that reduce shrinkage and can be applied in relatively thin layers. Repair concretes are somewhat expensive, but if you’re sleeping with the fish, you want the best. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/9 "2008-11-16T00:02:09Z")
> [@david\_42](#): > > On the practical side, fast-setting concretes used for fence poles and repairs will set in 15 minutes. Repair concretes would be ideal for overcoats, they contain materials that reduce shrinkage and can be applied in relatively thin layers. Repair concretes are somewhat expensive, but if you’re sleeping with the fish, you want the best. We, who are interested in the practical, thank youse. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/10 "2008-11-16T00:12:32Z")
All the geeks on this board and no mention of this? Kracko: I got rights! Scotty: You got nothing. You mind your place, or you’ll be wearin’ **concrete galoshes**. Kracko: You mean cement overshoes? Scotty: Aye. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/11 "2008-11-16T05:03:48Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > We, who are interested in the practical, thank youse. A writer friend of mine told me that the reason bodies don’t stay sunken is that the gases in the belly build up over time and make it buoyant. The trick, he said, would be to cut open the belly before dumping it in the water, allowing the gases to escape as they’re produced. ---
**Author:** ![jimigorilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@jimigorilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimigorilla)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/12 "2008-11-16T10:28:25Z")
Over here in the Netjherlands we had the affair of former kickboxer and bodyguard Andre Brilman, who was killed, dropped in an oildrum filled with concrete, and driopped in the river Waal after a disagreement with his boss, gangleader Klaas Bruinsma, who was subsequentially killed himself in an ongoing gang war. This happened in the 80s I think. I couldn’t find any confirmatyion of the date on the web, but it’s a well documented case. I’d hazard a guess that these Dutch gangsters were inspired by the concrete shoes myths that they’d heard of from over in America. Another example of cultural imperialism. like the Big Mac? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/13 "2008-11-16T14:09:54Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > How many do you use? I’ve heard of cheapskates who used only one or two and when the body bloated it floated, despite its accoutrements. “Dat’s a life a buoy!” ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/14 "2008-11-16T16:08:04Z")
Not being a mobster myself, I’ve read in a novel\* that the more knowledgeable killers would use chickenwire to cover the body, to prevent the problem that decomposing/ being eaten by the fishes lead to detachment of the body and the feet, and thus the body would float up and cause trouble despite the overshoes/cement blocks on the feet. Though, couldn’t the guys at the body farm who investigate decomposition test how effective different methods of dumping bodies into a river /ocean are? 🙂 \*Hogfather by Terry Pratchett, now that I think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/15 "2008-11-16T17:12:20Z")
You mean cement overshoes? (Said Krako to Scotty) ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/16 "2008-11-16T17:15:04Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > You mean cement overshoes? > > (Said Krako to Scotty) Are you talking about “A Piece of the Action” ? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/17 "2008-11-17T16:41:14Z")
\*\*jimigorilla \*\* said: > [@](#): > > Over here in the Netjherlands we had the affair of former kickboxer and bodyguard Andre Brilman, who was killed, dropped in an oildrum filled with concrete, and driopped in the river Waal after a disagreement with his boss, gangleader Klaas Bruinsma, who was subsequentially killed himself in an ongoing gang war. This happened in the 80s I think. I couldn’t find any confirmatyion of the date on the web, but it’s a well documented case. I’d hazard a guess that these Dutch gangsters were inspired by the concrete shoes myths that they’d heard of from over in America. Another example of cultural imperialism. like the Big Mac? Possibly, but not necessarily. It doesn’t take a genius to think of dumping a body in a river, and think of weighing it down so it doesn’t float. And it doesn’t take exceptional powers of deduction to derive that concrete is heavy. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/18 "2008-11-17T17:09:55Z")
I’ve found the concrete keeps them from coming back as a vengeful zombie. At least , so far… ---
**Author:** ![jimigorilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@jimigorilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimigorilla)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/19 "2008-11-17T17:35:14Z")
Well, if they’d had any intelligence they’d have just weighed him down, instead of this rather cumbersome and logistically inefficient manner. As Cecil pointed out also, I believe. I think on the whole criminawl intelligence resembles miltary intelligence quite a lot in that both are virtually non-existent. ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752/20 "2008-11-20T17:38:39Z")
I saw an episode of Bones where someone’s feet were encased in cement (or concrete or mortar) and dumped in water. I found it interesting that although all 6 sides of the concrete shoes were smooth, the toes and a few inches of the feet stuck out the front of the concrete. In order to mold a perfect cube of concrete around your HEELS with the front half of your feet hanging out, what kind of contraption do you put the person in? Do you see what I mean? I can understand how the ankles and legs are sticking out - that’s the part that’s “up” during the pouring and setting of the hard stuff, but the feet and toes? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-concrete-shoes-a-favored-technique-of-mob-hitmen/472752.md?page=2)