# Were Early Cartoons Racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2001, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528 "2001-05-06T08:20:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2001, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/61 "2001-05-14T23:23:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\*Geez, when they drew the Japanese as sinister beings, they drew them more or less anatomically correct. \*\* I’d have to disagree there. Most Japanese caricatures showed them with _extremely_ slanted eyes with big buck teeth. Hardly representative of Japanese people in general except in a very stereotypical sense. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2001, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/62 "2001-05-15T03:58:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\*I am a Black man who happen to have and like big lips; it is said that it is an evolutionary advancement. Those animated lips with small, button noses, narrowed faces, and slurred speech, that’s the problem. It is as if they never saw a Black man before, or have nobody besides Stephen Fetchit pose for them. Geez, when they drew the Japanese as sinister beings, they drew them more or less anatomically correct. They weren’t even close when it comes to drawing Black men, children and Big Women. \*\* I’ve noticed that in a lot of Japanese comics and animation that Japanese characters are portrayed with big round eyes, but Chinese, Korean, or other Asian characters have eyes as slanted as in the worst WWII-era propaganda. I’ve noticed that in a lot of Mexican cartoons black characters are drawn as caricatures that would probably be considered offensive in the U.S., but other than the way they are visually presented there is nothing else really ‘wrong’ about it. Of course, most cartoon characters are caricatures that don’t really look like a real human being. I wasn’t exaggerating about the size of those lips in the cartoon I mentioned - I’d think nothing of a portrayal that showed the black characters with larger lips on average than the Hispanic or white characters, in fact someone who drew blacks exactly the same as everyone else but with a different skin tone is probably either a poor artist or subconsciously fixated on only one of the differences. I don’t think there’s many people who would see anything negative about fuller than average lips, Angelina Jolie is considered by a lot of guys as an extremely attractive woman, in part BECAUSE of her lips. In ‘De Cabeza’, however, all of the non-black characters had no lips (it’s a fairly simply drawn cartoon) while every black character had huge bright red lips, with no variation in size. It wasn’t quite as bad as [url=“[http://www.somethingawful.com/rompit/tomsawyer-square/pic-01.gif](http://www.somethingawful.com/rompit/tomsawyer-square/pic-01.gif)”]Square’s Tom Sawyer[/url} for the NES, but I’m surprised it’s allowed on the air in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2001, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/63 "2001-05-15T18:24:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Badtz Maru \* > \*\*It wasn’t quite as bad as [Square’s Tom Sawyer](http://www.somethingawful.com/rompit/tomsawyer-square/pic-01.gif) for the NES, but I’m surprised it’s allowed on the air in the U.S. \*\* I fixed your link. You used a “}” instead of a “]” at the very end. ---
**Author:** ![Louie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Louie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Louie)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/64 "2001-05-16T08:51:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jaimest \* > **Come to think of it, I haven’t seen the Three Stooges, Laurel and Hardy, or Abbot and Costello on TV in a long time too. Are those shows insensitive as well?** I was watching the 3 Stooges Marathon on AMC a couple of months ago. The very last episode they showed in the marathon was this surprising episode (summary found here : [3 Stooges](http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/2933/episodethreestooges.html)) : > [@](#): > > NO DOUGH BOYS > > (Episode 82): The stooges are dressed as Japanese soldiers for their job as magazine models. On their lunch break they go into a restaurant with their Japanese uniforms on causing the proprietor to mistake them for the real thing, and a chase ensues. The boys fall through a trap door, and into a nest of Nazi spies where they are mistaken for “Naki”, “Saki” and “Waki”, three Japanese saboteurs. The stooges try to act the part, including demonstrating acrobatics and jiu-jitsu to their hosts. When the real “Naki”, “Saki” and “Waki” show up, the boys are exposed and impostors, but after a wild fight manage to capture all the Axis spies. Seeing the Stooges with lines drawn across their eyes and buck teeth… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/65 "2001-05-16T12:36:37Z")
So how come Cletus the slack-jawed yokel isn’t considered an offensive stereotype? How come it’s OK to stereotype some groups but not others? (And how come I’m posting like were Socrates?) I agree that offensive stereotypes have no place in children’s programming, or any programming, for that matter, but it seems to me that we are more sensitive to some stereotypes than we are to others. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/66 "2001-05-16T13:31:55Z")
The lifestyles of Hill Folk living in the Ozarks and Appalachians are among the last acceptable stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2001, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/67 "2001-05-17T07:31:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*So how come Cletus the slack-jawed yokel isn’t considered an offensive stereotype? How come it’s OK to stereotype some groups but not others? > > (And how come I’m posting like were Socrates?) > > I agree that offensive stereotypes have no place in children’s programming, or any programming, for that matter, but it seems to me that we are more sensitive to some stereotypes than we are to others. \*\* The Simpsons makes fun of _everyone_. If they singled out Cletus, I’d see your point, but they target everyone on that show, and the chief target of humor is a white, middle class, family man. The Simpsons treats all its characters as fodder for the jokes. When you treat everyone equally, that is the opposite of discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2001, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/68 "2001-05-17T13:46:06Z")
**Number Six** wrote: > [@](#): > > The Simpsons mak see your point, but they target everyone on that show, and the chief target of humor is a white, middle class, family man. > > The Simpsons treats all its characters as fodder for the jokes. When you treat everyone equally, that is the opposite of discrimination. Except **The Simpsons** doesn’t really do that. They observe the standard taboos. You don’t see any shuckin’ and jivin’ black characters, do you? No buck-toothed Asians. No money-grubbing Jews. (And let me be clear. It’s good that they do observe these taboos.) My point is that it is still acceptable to stereotype Southerners in general, and mountaineers in particular, as slack-jawed, inbred ignoramuses. Want your character to sound stupid? Give him a Southern accent, right? I’m not all worked up about it. Just mildly annoyed by it. (Being both a Southerner and a moutaineer.) ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/69 "2001-05-18T00:06:30Z")
Cletus lives neither in the South nor in the mountains, so he is neither a Southerner nor a mountain person. I’ve always seen him as just a poor Springfieldite. I’ve seen the “Cletus, the slack-jawed yokel” jokes as being aimed at “poor white trash.” This would indeed be offensive discrimination if not for the fact that the show ridicules middle-class whites (Simpsons, Flanders) and rich whites (Mr. Burns, Krusty) much more often than it does Cletus. And the show does have a greedy Jew (Krusty), along with an even greedier WASP (Mr. Burns), a greedy mayor, greedy Italian gangsters, greedy, corrupt police, greedy lawyers, doctors, business owners, etc. Had Krusty been singled out as a greedy Jew as opposed to the Gentiles, that would be offensive, but when the show depicts basically everyone as being greedy, it is treating them equally. If you are looking for something to be offended about, _The Simpsons_ will no doubt have something to offend you, which is what I think makes the show great. It targets everything and everyone. It is about as anti-pc as a show can get. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/70 "2001-05-18T14:22:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Cletus lives neither in the South nor in the mountains Cletus has an unmistakeable Southern accent. (And Southern accent=stupid, of course. :rolleyes: ) The character draws on the worst stereotypes of Southern mountaineers. Krusty, you will recall, is a spendthrift, the _opposite_ of the Jewish stereotype. Hey, I’m not “looking for something to be offended about.” I love The Simpsons. For my money, it’s been the best show on TV over the course of its run, and maybe the best ever. That doesn’t make the show immune from all criticism. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/71 "2001-05-18T20:39:39Z")
Have you heard of him? He’s a bad guy on _The Powerpuff Girls_. He has a thick Southern accent, he’s lazy, he wears blue overalls, he lives in a one-room shack in the woods, he likes “rasslin’”, he has “cuzzins” named Hairy and Furry (among others), he once was elected Mayor and kept a pig and a broken-down car in the office and made Miss Sarah Bellum dress like Daisy May (cut-off jeans, a halter-top and bare feet [sub]not that I’m complainin’…[/sub]). Also, he’s fat and he ain’t too bright. OTOH, he’s pink, furry and has antennae. IOW, he isn’t human. Does the stereotype still apply to non-human characters? Is it still offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/72 "2001-06-25T02:42:59Z")
I’m bumping this up because I just saw a blurb on the Cartoon Network that next week, at 10:00PM ET their “Toonheads” feature will be showing wartime cartoons. Not sure which ones, there were quite a few, but the blurb had fast images of Hitler, Japanese soldiers, and so on. Maybe they will be showing some of the controversial ones? If anyone finds out I’m sure we would like to know. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/73 "2001-06-25T07:08:58Z")
this quote from you, here. > [@](#): > > As long as we’re whitewashing past stereotypes, can’t we whitewash the old “ignorant hillbillies” stereotype, too? > > Other offenders: The Beverly Hillbillies, The Real McCoys, Li’l Abner, **Pogo** , Snuffy Smith. Ban 'em all! (bolding mine) Pogo, a hillbilly? He lives in the freakin’ Okeefenokee swamp! Can we get an adjudication from a geographer, please? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2001, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/74 "2001-06-25T22:46:38Z")
ALL Southerners are damned to a ‘dim-witted’ stereotype and hillbillies are just Southerners who live in the mountains. There’s probrably a special subset for Southeners who hang around the swamps, too (Coonass? Cajuns?) I don’t think the characters in POGO fit into the overall stereotype. Not all usage of patois or dialect is meant in a demeening way. Now, when the lil’ black kid (Bumbamzee?) was in the Sunday strip, however… ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2001, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/75 "2001-06-27T01:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\*Have you heard of him? He’s a bad guy on _The Powerpuff Girls_. He has a thick Southern accent, he’s lazy, he wears blue overalls, he lives in a one-room shack in the woods, he likes “rasslin’”, he has “cuzzins” named Hairy and Furry (among others), he once was elected Mayor and kept a pig and a broken-down car in the office and made Miss Sarah Bellum dress like Daisy May (cut-off jeans, a halter-top and bare feet [sub]not that I’m complainin’…[/sub]). Also, he’s fat and he ain’t too bright. > > OTOH, he’s pink, furry and has antennae. IOW, he isn’t human. Does the stereotype still apply to non-human characters? Is it still offensive? \*\* Well, I don’t know, but if I hear any pink furry hillbillies protesting and threateningly waving their boomsticks outside of AOL Time Warner headquarters, you’ll be the first to know. 🙂 Ryan W. Mead[sub], who’s been looking for an excuse to use the word “boomstick”[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Nekochan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@Nekochan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nekochan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2001, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/76 "2001-06-27T03:43:01Z")
I wonder what Swedish people would think of the Swedish Chef muppet character? Would French people find Pepe LePew, who was horny and smelly, offensive? And **capacitor** …Japanese stereotypes were anatomically correct? Oyf! Please clarify! ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2001, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/77 "2001-06-27T18:05:35Z")
I once worked with some French guys who thought Inspector Clouseau was hilarious and not at all offensive. I never did find out how they felt about Pepe Le Pew. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/78 "2001-07-02T03:04:31Z")
Cartoon Network just finished the selection of wartime cartoons I mentioned a few days ago. In between individual cartoons there were clips of others they did not show, and a lot of talk about stereotypes and wartime context. The only one shown tonight from the 11 that were not shown in the June Bugs Marathon was “Herr Meets Hare”. Just wondering if anyone else saw them and what they thought. ---
**Author:** ![Gr8Kat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gr8kat/32/18668_2.png) [@Gr8Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gr8Kat)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/79 "2001-07-03T20:12:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baker \* > \*\*Cartoon Network just finished the selection of wartime cartoons I mentioned a few days ago. In between individual cartoons there were clips of others they did not show, and a lot of talk about stereotypes and wartime context. The only one shown tonight from the 11 that were not shown in the June Bugs Marathon was “Herr Meets Hare”. Just wondering if anyone else saw them and what they thought. \*\* I saw the program, but I’m afraid I don’t have any deep thoughts. But it did look to me like, even in this historical context, there was some editing. In particular, in the Tex Avery 3 Little Pigs cartoon, I noticed that there was a sign in front of the pigs’ bunker that read “No Dogs.” The word “dogs” was crossed out and it appeared that something else had been written above it, but _that_ had been blurred out. Of course that just peaks one’s curiosity. It’s also the first time since I was a wee girl that I’ve seen “Herr Meets Hare” and I actually get most of the jokes now, but who is Bugs impersonating at the end that upsets both Hitler and Goering? And did it seem to me that, while they shied away from any Japanese stereotypes, indeed even apologized for them, they didn’t have the same compunctions about German stereotypes? Is it ok because the German charicatures didn’t include appearance, just culture and language? All in all, it was pretty educational, but it would have been nice if it had been longer so they could have shown more cartoons. I’d really like to have seen some of those Private Snafu cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528/80 "2001-07-03T20:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gr8Kat \* > **in the Tex Avery 3 Little Pigs cartoon, I noticed that there was a sign in front of the pigs’ bunker that read “No Dogs.” The word “dogs” was crossed out and it appeared that something else had been written above it, but _that_ had been blurred out.** I noticed that too. > [@](#): > > **It’s also the first time since I was a wee girl that I’ve seen “Herr Meets Hare” and I actually get most of the jokes now, but who is Bugs impersonating at the end that upsets both Hitler and Goering?** The bushy mustache and eyebrows, the pipe and the green uniform with red stars means he was supposed to be Joseph Stalin. I’m pretty sure some of the Snafu cartoons are on home video. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-early-cartoons-racist/64528.md?page=5)